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Unread 12-16-2019, 09:04 AM   #1
Sharon @ LATICRETE
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Hi Joe -
When you are using any type of enhancers typically they will tell you to make sure that the stone is free and clear of any sealers. The best product we have for travertine would be STONETECH Enhancer Pro Sealer but we need to make sure there are no sealers present or that will affect how the stone actually enhances.

If you are wanting to seal for the intended purpose for the sealer to be used as a grout release we would recommend the following you’re your install.

1. Clean travertine really well using the STONETECH KlenzAll Cleaner. Travertine does have a tendency to be dusty.
2. Once the stone is clean and dry then use the STONETECH Grout Release.
3. Allow stone to dry for 24 hours then use the STONETECH Enhancer Pro Seaer. This will enhance and seal.
4. Once properly enhanced use the STONETECH Revitalizer Cleaner & Protector to maintain on a daily.

Here's a helpful link.


This discussion excerpted from a thread in the C/S/R forum.
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Last edited by cx; 12-20-2019 at 10:37 AM.
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Unread 12-16-2019, 09:09 AM   #2
John Bridge
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Hi Sharon,

I need a little clarification. Why the grout release before the enhancer? If he sets the tile, enhances it and then grouts, shouldn't that do it?
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Unread 12-16-2019, 07:43 PM   #3
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John/Sharon, the travertine hasn’t been set yet and I do plan to fill all voids with grout. So, the plan is to set it, then use the Stonetech Enhancer Pro, then grout.

Thanks
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Unread 12-17-2019, 09:15 AM   #4
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That sounds like a plan.
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Unread 12-17-2019, 12:22 PM   #5
Sharon @ LATICRETE
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John -
Quote:
I need a little clarification. Why the grout release before the enhancer? If he sets the tile, enhances it and then grouts, shouldn't that do it?
We do not recommend to use the STONETECH Enhancer or the Enhancer Pro as a grout release. These are transformers and if you use them as a grout release and then grout there is a chance of picture framing. Anytime we recommend to use any of our transformers such as the Enhancer Pro and a grout release is needed we only recommend the Grout Release.

If we were using just a regular sealer then you could use those sealers as a grout release and then reseal no issues as they do not transform color and will not experience the picture framing.
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Unread 12-18-2019, 10:31 AM   #6
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Sharon, you don't have a problem with the grout release residue causing uneven color enhancement when applying the grout release before using an enhancing sealer?

I'm thinking StoneTech had told me years ago (when we were distributors) that when using an enhancer you wanted it to go on before any other sealing product and seems to me the grout release could cause similar problems with the enhancer.

I need to alter my advice on the use of those products?


Sorry for hijacking your thread, Joe.
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Unread 12-18-2019, 03:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Sharon, you don't have a problem with the grout release residue causing uneven color enhancement when applying the grout release before using an enhancing sealer?
It is important that with Grout Release you do not allow a residue to form or it can be very difficult to remove. However to answer your question yes if there is any type of residue is left it will effect how the stone enhances with the Enhancer Pro.

Quote:
I'm thinking StoneTech had told me years ago (when we were distributors) that when using an enhancer you wanted it to go on before any other sealing product and seems to me the grout release could cause similar problems with the enhancer.
When using any of the Transformers which are Enhancer, Enhancer Pro, High Gloss Finishing Sealer or the Semi Gloss Finishing Sealer we do no recommend for them to be used as a grout release and we only recommend the STONETECH Grout Release. We do not recommend any other impregnating sealers to be used prior to putting the these products down. The Grout Release is formulated to break down when the stone is grouted so that when you are ready to use any of the Transformers it will absorb.
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Unread 12-20-2019, 09:53 AM   #8
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Sharon, even though I know your grout release is supposed to wash away during the grout cleanup, my limited experience with enhancing sealers would make me quite concerned about the enhancer leaving a blotchy (technical term) appearance on the tile because the release agent was not completely, perfectly, absolutely removed from the surface during the cleaning.

My experience using an enhancer after grouting is that the enhancer either does nothing at all to the grout, or it enhances some areas and not others with no consistency at all.

What is Laticrete's concern with using the enhancer first on the tiles before grouting and using a grout release over that if desired? Just seems the safer option to me and one I've actually used with the StoneTech Professional products in past.
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Unread 12-20-2019, 11:36 PM   #9
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Also if you enhance after grout the grout will become darker. We always enhance first then grout. Never had a problem.

I have seen the grout look blotchy when enhanced after grouting.
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Unread 12-20-2019, 11:55 PM   #10
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I haven’t experienced a problem with grout release preventing the enhancing. It breaks down/wears away easily. But, it’s kind of a moot point because even if you want your grout to be darkened by the enhancer, it’s waaaaay too likely to cause the grout to get splotchy. There’s no way I’m chancing screwing up a job enhancing over grout when the job is 98% done.
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Unread 01-08-2020, 10:27 AM   #11
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This goes back to the issue posted earlier. We really do not want Enhancer used prior to grouting unless it is epoxy grout then you are okay. If you choose to use this product prior to grouting, basically as a grout release, then you can run the risk of it picture framing.

No, this does not happen all the time, but it can happen and is almost impossible to fix. Which is why we say suggest: grout release, grout and then Enhance.

For a color enhancing impregnating sealer for interior surfaces:
STONETECH Enhancer Sealer (Water-based)
Read entire label before using. Use only as directed. Test in a small inconspicuous area with a 24-hour cure time to determine ease of application and desired results. Allow new grout installations to cure for at least 72 hours
prior to application. Be sure surface is clean, thoroughly dry and free of sealers, waxes and coatings. Not recommended for exterior surfaces. Surface temperature should be between 50°
F – 80°F (10°C - 26°C). Avoid skin and eye contact. Wear protective eyewear and gloves. Ensure work area is well-ventilated during application and
until surface is dry. Keep children and pets out of the area during application and drying.

1. Shake well before using.
2. Apply STONETECH Enhancer Sealer evenly and liberally using a paint pad, low-pressure chemical resistant sprayer, roller or brush. Avoid applying sealer on unintended surfaces.
3. Allow sealer to penetrate surface for 15–30 minutes; denser material may require maximum time to penetrate surface. Spread excess sealer over entire area for even penetration.
4. Following penetration time, completely wipe surface dry with a clean dry towel. DO NOT ALLOW EXCESS TO DRY COMPLETELY ON SURFACE.
5. A second coat may be needed for porous, absorbent surfaces or if a darker appearance is required. Apply second coat 1 hour after start of initial application following directions in steps 1–4.
6. A full cure is achieved after 24–72 hours. Surface traffic may begin in 6–8 hours. If needed sooner, cover the floor with red rosin paper to protect it until the recommended time periods have passed.
7. Clean tools used during application with water.

Refer to data sheet DS217.5 for more information
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Unread 01-09-2020, 08:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Sharon, even though I know your grout release is supposed to wash away during the grout cleanup, my limited experience with enhancing sealers would make me quite concerned about the enhancer leaving a blotchy (technical term) appearance on the tile because the release agent was not completely, perfectly, absolutely removed from the surface during the cleaning.
If you use any of our regular sealers yes this would be the case. The Grout Release was designed for this specifically for our Enhancers. So unless you over-apply the product that would not be the case here. Our directions will be Grout Release first 4 hour cure time, Grout, 72 hour cure time and then Enhance over the entire installation.

Quote:
My experience using an enhancer after grouting is that the enhancer either does nothing at all to the grout, or it enhances some areas and not others with no consistency at all.
This is true depending upon type of grout and what type of additives they have built into the formulation. This is always a risk when you use enhancers with modified grouts. If a customer was going to use an epoxy grout then you can Enhance the tile first then grout no issue.

Quote:
What is Laticrete's concern with using the enhancer first on the tiles before grouting and using a grout release over that if desired? Just seems the safer option to me and one I've actually used with the StoneTech Professional products in past.
Yes you would think that it is safer to use than Enhancer first however you can run the risk of picture framing. Doesn’t happen all the times or on all stones but it can happen and when this happens it is very difficult to correct without mechanical refinishing. LATICRETE's stance is again Grout Release, Grout and then Enhance.
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Unread 01-09-2020, 08:43 AM   #13
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I see your point, Sharon, but we're not suggesting its use as a grout release. We go back quite a way in the sealer business (private label, Stone Tech distributor and Aquamix advertiser (still) and now everybody's products).

We've had a number of cases right here on the forums where enhancer blotched up the grout. Since that time we've recommended enhancing and grouting afterward, and since we're old dogs here it's going to be pretty tough to change our minds.
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