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Unread 04-24-2018, 09:52 PM   #1
kanonka
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Rubi 250 vs Imer 250VA for accuracy

Hi all,
I need and advice on choosing a bridge saw.
I need to cut 24x24 tiles for a bathroom(s). Problem is that the layout is such that all tiles are custom cut, and accuracy is a paramount. To give you a perspective - 1/32 along 24in cut is the least acceptable accuracy. Yes, I'm that a##l perfectionist. Oh, and I forgot to mention that half of the cuts are miters, and some of them are L- and U-miters

I didn't mention that cutting should be perfectly square - I think this is a req for any saw.

Originally I was set on Rubi due to all bells and whistles . But then, in one of the threads in this forum someone mentioned that Rubi was ok in the beginning and then started to be 1/8 or even 1/4 off. On another hand, when I was reading about Imer someone scared me away by saying that Imer is totally unforgivable to a human error, unlike Rubi, and that you basically should be a pro with 9000 years of experience to just touch Imer

So, overall, I'm not sure what to choose. This saw will sit in my garage, and I don't care about the weight. Also, I don't need 47" cut length of Rubi 250-1200 and Imer 250VA: 36" cut length of Rubi 250-850 is enough for my needs. But whatever saw I chose, it just have to be absolutely accurate. I went psycho with my prev saw (Ridgid 10" sliding) - I was able to achieve 1/32 accuracy in only like 1 of 10 cuts, which is totally unacceptable. I can forgive any other bad things of the saw - weight, inconvenience, mess, rusting in one year,etc ,but it just has to be absolutely accurate. Any advice?
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Unread 04-26-2018, 06:11 PM   #2
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Imers are known for being a bit underpowered but extremely accurate. I'd say that's a fair assessment of every imer I've ever used.

Never had my hands on a rubi saw. Can't comment on it.
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Unread 04-27-2018, 12:08 PM   #3
tilemanct
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I have a Ramondi Zipper that cuts awesome. Its all in the blade.
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Unread 04-27-2018, 08:39 PM   #4
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Rubi tile saws aren’t all that great I have a dx 250-1000 and I probably wouldn’t do it again I’ve had shaft bearing issues with it and the cutting head setup has a lot of flex in it which makes dead on accuracy difficult
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Unread 04-28-2018, 04:57 AM   #5
Karls tile Inc
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I have 2 Rubi saws and the accuracy is horrible.I even had their tech come to the job to try and dial it in and he couldn't get it right.
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Unread 04-28-2018, 10:20 AM   #6
eurob
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I'll second the " It's all in the blade ''


Name:  Leftover cuts from 24''.jpg
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Didn't have the chance to try their -- Rubi -- new blade .
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Unread 04-28-2018, 01:43 PM   #7
bc brick john
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had a rubi 250n which had issues
could not get it to cut straight...

have a 36" pearl bridge under a new name now, but the starting cap let go so its sitting idle i would be also looking at the beast bridge saw lackmond or what its called...
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Unread 04-29-2018, 12:40 AM   #8
kanonka
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I picked up Rubi 250-1200 today from a local shop to give it a try. 2 issues right out of the box: 1) it is not square (off 1/16 on 24 in ), 2) plunge cut is basically impossible with this spring: it goes down easily first 1/4, then VERY tight next 1/2 in, then again goes easily. Basically, you do not feel if you cut tile of fight the spring. Tension is so big that it slides the head towards you instead of going down. So this junk goes back to store tomorrow.

Now, it's probably will be Imer. One concern I have is this: I'm planning to use it with Alpha Porcellana, which is 1.6mm thick blade. Someone here on forum mentioned that he put thicker blade than original, and it touched the support table. Can someone please shed a light on if this really an issue? Also, what about plunge cuts? How plunge spring behave on Imer?

Also, I was looking around again and again, and having such bad experience with Rubi (which was highly praised by multiple reviews everywhere), I started to think if may be I should bite the bullet and go with higher priced saw. I saw Raimondi Gladiator video, and it seems like at least plunge action is easy, but it had really weird thing - blade rotation is backwards. On some forum I saw mentioning that this applies only to models they sell in Europe, and in US blade rotation is normal, just like any other saw here. Can someone please comment?

I also saw Raimondi Zipper line, but it's a no-go for me for it's arbor of 1" and blade size of 12" min. Alpha Porcellana does not exist with this sizes, and that's a best blade hands down - I tried quite a few, including T3 Razor, and Alpha beats everyone, so I gonna stick with it.
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Last edited by kanonka; 04-29-2018 at 12:46 AM. Reason: type-o
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Unread 04-29-2018, 06:38 PM   #9
Weitekamp Remodeling
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Rubi 250

I had the Rubi 250 and it was absolutely horrible in cutting large format tiles. I purchased i for a job where we needed to cut 48x48 and 24x48 tiles for a high end bath project. No matter how much fussing around with the alignment I couldn't get it to cut the tiles straight. Now granted the 48x48 tiles were a 1/2" thick but dang.

I've now switched over to using my Festool track saw with a really good 5" tile blade for large tiles that won't fit in my wet saw (24"). Works like a champ, no water, no dust and perfect cuts every time.
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Unread 04-30-2018, 05:44 AM   #10
RichVT
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Which blade are you using in your track saw?
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Unread 05-02-2018, 10:43 PM   #11
kanonka
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So, can someone please comment on Raimondi Gladiator? Which way blade rotates on it? Normal, like all other saws in US, or backwards, like, hmm, all in Europe?

I know I should go for Imer, but for some reason cannot make myself to like it

So I'm searching high and low, and found two more good looking ones - VX10RS from Pearl, and BeastRS34 from Lackmond, but there are literally zero reviews of them on the net. And of course, no one have them locally here to rent and try

Oh, and by the way, I just love the attitude of support in Lackmond. I called in and asked: "Flyer on the BeastRS34 says it supports plunge cut, but online manual has no mention of that whatsoever. So, can it do plunge cut, or not?" And support man answered: "It should. I believe so." I reiterated: "you think so, or it for sure does have it?" His answer was: "I think it does" So I guess I can scratch Lackmond off the list
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Unread 05-26-2018, 12:02 AM   #12
kanonka
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Ok, I finally bought a saw and going to post review here so it might be helpful for others.

First of all, want to remind about my first attempt in rail saws - Ruby 250-1200. It was very off-square with no easy way to fix that, so it went back to store. Then, I was considering the following saws:
- Lackmond Beast Rail Saw BEASTRS34
- Pearl VX10RSPRO
- Imer Combi 250/1000VA
- Raimondi Gladiator 105

First one, BEASTRS34, was two weeks ago on crazy sale on Amazon - $875 (now price came back to $1,750). The reasons I didn't go for it:
1) Very lousy support from Lackmond - the support guy didn't even know if saw has plunge capability, and was too lazy to pick up his a.. and take a look.
2) Suspicious price cut - if saw is good, why price dipped that low? May be it was bad batch, or something else, hard to say, but I didn't risk to buy it.
3) Too new with zero information anywhere. Yes, it's made in Italy, but it's a new endeavor for Lackmond, and nobody anywhere commented if it was a successful one.

Second, Pearl VX10RSPRO, looked VERY tempting. Cheapest of them all ($1,300), got everything I was looking for, etc. I even found one comment on ContractorsDirect that someone achieved very good precision with it (1/64 in 3 feet!). The reasons I didn't go for it:
1) Again, almost zero information anywhere. I found only one video review made by people who obviously know nothing about saws and are not engineers or anything close to that. You know, sort of "this is a good laptop - it's black and thin!"
2) Rubber-like work surface. It's very hard to judge without personally feeling it, but almost any rubber compresses, and that might lead to small vertical movement, that could be critical in a very tight jolly cut, or narrow cuts (like 1 in or less). Again, for me critical is anything bigger that 1/32 offset.

Third, Imer Combi 250/1000VA. Imer support was sort of good, but it was very hard to explain the guy that I'm asking him about their 1/32 guarantee - it is squareness or blade deviation along the cut? Instead of answering, he started to go off about how blade is important, etc. Long story short, he confirmed that they guarantee 1/32 or less blade deviation along the cut, but he didn't say on what distance - 1 foot, 2, 3, 4? And no guarantees on squareness.
The reasons I didn't go for it:
1) Literally no bells and whistles, i.e. no tile holder, or extension table on the right side, or anything else.
2) Questionable support
3) Virtually impossible to adjust squareness if it goes off, or comes bad from factory.
4) For some strange reason, I just don't like it. When literally everything pushes me in some direction, I always resist

Finally, Raimondi Gladiator 105. After I scratched Lackmond and Pearl from the list, I was torn back and forth between Raimondi and Imer. The only thing that was stopping me was the blade rotation direction - on all videos it was rotating backwards, like everything in Europe But then I just emailed Raimondi support. They answered me in 2 hours, and confirmed the following: yes, it was the case long time ago. Now, for last 5-6 years, all Gladiator saws they sell in US rotate normally, like any other saw. It's just those videos are obsolete now. So, I pulled the trigger and ordered Raimondi Gladiator 135 (not 105, but 135). Reasoning for 135 instead of 105 was standard - a) I can cut short things on long saw, but I cannot cut long things on short saw, b) resell value is much higher and easier to find buyer in pro community when I no longer will need this saw. Besides, difference of 400 was big, but not that big.

I ordered it on Tools4Flooring with nice discount. The reason I didn't got with ContractorsDirect is that they ship free only to commercial address, while T4F shipped it free to my residence, plus a discount

It arrived exactly in one week from order day. First, I was kind of scared, as at the bottom of the water container I found Fedex slip that indicated that saw was sent to T4F by ... Ruby distribution center! Plus, color scheme looks very like Ruby. I thought that may be this is same case like Toyota/Lexus - same company, same cars, just one is made by a little better trained workers. Anyway, I was very suspicious up to the moment of first cut.

I don't know where to start, so I'll start with a good thing, because it's shorter . By the way, let me deviate a little for some rumble. If you'd only know, how am I tired of all these 'reviewers' on any tech stuff. I'm the engineer, and work with numbers. I always, always, always look at the tech params first. So, it just drives me nuts when some 'reviewer' says something like 'yeah, this baby is dead straight and square!' Or, 'it cuts like a butter!' C'mon, this is not a review! This is a child talk. How straight? How square? What did you measure with? What is precision of your measuring tool? What does it mean, "like a butter"?! I can cut butter stick in 1 second. You want to say, you can cut 4 feet of porcelain in 1 second?!

Ok, I vented an bit, so I'll continue
So, good thing first: saw cuts straight and square . How square? I measured 2 ways. One way was to use Empire 12" rafter square. It's precision is 0.001 in 12 in. I was applying square to the cut side, and was measuring distance from tile edge to square edge using Neiko 01409A caliper, which has it's own accuracy of 0.001 in. So, error of measurement cannot exceed 0.002 in in 12 in. When I was measuring this way, I was unable to register any off-square in 12 in, meaning that the cut was square to at least 0.002in in 12 in distance.

Second way was simpler: I took 2 feet long tile and cut it along one edge. Then, moved tile along the bottom, and cut approximately 1" along these 2 feet. This was done to avoid any off-square issue with the tile itself - to measure how cuts are parallel to each other. Then, I measured actual width of that 1" strip every 2in along the long side using same caliper. Results - deviation is 0.01in in 2 feet, which translates to roughly 0.005 in in 12 in (better that 1/128 per 12 in).

For the record, all of this was cut using Alpha Porcellana 10" blade.

Another good thing is the water stream - it's darn strong! I cannot describe it (or measure), but it's very like water stream from your kitchen faucet when totally opened. Water management is sort of no good, no bad - in 40 mins of non-stop cutting only about one gallon went to the floor

So, I got what I wanted in terms of precision. Now, the bad parts (you expected them, don't you?

1) Tile holder is a joke. Cruel joke. First of all, it doesn't work for jolly cuts - it is located too close to the head, so when head is tilted, it pushes the holder and stops at ~30 degrees. Yes, you heard it right - no 45 degrees jolly cuts with tile holder. Second, to install it, you need to screw nut from the bottom. This location is accessible only when water container is removed (or pulled to the front at least 10"). Problem is, to pull container out, you need to ... tilt head 45 degrees So, the order of installing tile holder is this: a) tilt head 45 degrees and pull out water container; b) attach front part of the tile holder while making sure that rear part is moved far left (so holder rail does not touch saw head). This is very, very awkward moment; c) push water container back, tilt head back to be straight; d) now attach the rear part of tile holder. Uffff, you're done! Ouch, your next cut is jolly cut? Darn....
And last, but not least: once you engage tile holder, you have to hold it until cut is finished!!! Yes, there is no fixator or locker or anything like that! Keep tile holder with all your might with one hand, while cutting with another. After several cuts I felt that development of such a holder should be qualified as a capital crime.

2) Support table ("folding extension table") is another joke. No matter how you install it, it is not high enough to reach table surface - it is short about 3/32. Basically, you cannot put tile on it. I was chatting with support and sending emails back and forth, and they finally confirmed (at the factory) that this is "by design"; I quote from their email: "the factory did this to avoid hit the tile when you slide on the plate, in the past some people complain about that, and prefer to have a small gap of the thickness of the plate,
then the factory decide to redesign this way
". Do you see what's wrong here? Well, ughm, everything, I'd say.

3) Square stop that slides on right front is not even a joke. It's absolutely, ultimately, totally useless accessory. It's sides are 6", and they are off 1/16 on that distance. Junk.

4) Blade replacement. To replace blade you need to open blade compartment. That's 6 screws. Nuff' said. Oh, and yes, Raimondi uses that dip star-head bolts. Good luck finding proper screw head. No, it's not included with the saw.

5) Original blade that come with the saw you can throw away immediately. Total junk. Chips porcelain every 1/4 in. As well you can throw away the manual - no useful information, very, very small pictures such you cannot even tell what is what on them. Pew.

6) To combat water spills to the user, Raimondi added sort of water deflector in front of the frame. Not so good idea. I used to verify blade position versus tile when doing jolly cuts by literally looking where blade touches tile exactly from the position that is now closed by this water deflector. Bad, bad, bad idea. I'd rather be wet than miss the cut.

7) Aluminum table covers are not exactly flat. They tilt up about 1/16 at the far edge. This is not so important for me, but c'mon, Raimondi, where is the quality control?! And no, this does not count as a case for their replacement. Ouch.

Well, that's all bad things I noticed so far.
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Unread 05-26-2018, 03:08 PM   #13
evan1968
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I feel for the saw rep.
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Unread 08-05-2018, 03:12 PM   #14
eurob
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I am sure there are few things which can be improved -- benefiting the user -- .

I do know that blade is a must when porcelain is in play .

No deviation in 48'' on a DS 250 , as long as tile is aligned properly , including the account for tile square alignment .

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Unread 08-10-2018, 07:02 AM   #15
muskymike
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I just bought a Rubi 250. I'll be using it today. I hope it will cut straight. 47" planks tiles.
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