major (as in, MAJOR) grout mess - please advise

[Lazarus]

Ceacy~

Virtually all grout used today is polymer or latex fortified. Proper cleaning of the grout off the tile is really no problem...as long as it is done promptly and properly. I would not use a grout "bag" for this. I'm sure others will chime in on this.....

[Brian in San Diego]

Ceacy,

If the sulfamic acid doesn't work, I'd let a professional try the muriatic prior to ripping up the floor! I think the real problem with muriatic is making sure it's diluted properly and not stored indoors. I don't think you'll find a person on this forum professional of DIYer who likes to grout. I don't know what's going on at your location, but any professional worth his/her salt should be able to apply and clean up grout without leaving the mess that you are in. I've grouted indoors, outdoors, floors and walls and haven't come close to the mess you have described. It's kind of depressing to read your story and I hope you are able to get this resolved. Maybe you should consider asking a forum member professional to come look at your problem.

Brian

[jkrause]

I learned my lesson the hard way about 7 months ago when I got WAY ahead of myself with grouting a tub enclosure ( travertine tile with 1/16" lines ) I had to fill the tile as well...... long story short the grout dried LONG before I could remove the left over... I had to resort to a stright razor... an a TON of time....

I learned my lesson

see it here...

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=43215

[JTG]

At a concrete supply house look for Sure Clean 600 It has always worked for us to take of grout and mortar that nothing else would touch.
There may be another brand at your supply house. Last time we went to purchase they said they were not going to be carrying it any longer because it was to strong. But it sure works well.
It is the stuff that is used on brick walls after setting to clean all the mortar off. It does the trick. It is a very very strong acid and you don't want it on any clothing, skin, metal. Wash the floor real well with clean water when done.
I usually dilute about 4 to 1 for the first test. Wear gloves, open all the windows and doors. a repirator if you need to.
Last time we used it everyone who was standing up watching got light headed and ill feeling. Those of on the floor doing the work were fine. Go figure.
Good Luck
JTG

[prashster]

Good luck on cleaning the 7x8 area. As for grouting the REST of the floor, if your tiler works in small areas, and cleans up quickly, he shouldn't have an issue. Yr problem has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's 'sanded' or 'polymer' added. Sanded, polymer added grout is 'normal' grout these days.

That being said, if he doesn't know that, i'd be scared to let him continue.

If it were me, I'd be focusing on getting him to agree to REPLACE the offending section if you can't clean it to your satisfaction. I hope you haven't paid him in full yet...

[Ceacy]

The help from you all is very appreciated. I am confused about how to proceed and since I don't really know who to talk to about this, you all ahve been a life saver.

I am concerned about having the installer finish the rest of the floors, so far since the big grout mess, he has just continued to set the tiles while we figure out the next step. We tried the sulfamic acid yesterday and it made a small improvement but didn't solve the problem, basically I think it just removed haze ( and I don't know what I am talking about as you already have guessed by now).

As far as finding another installer , there in lies the dilemma. I live in a very rural area of northern Massachusetts and I don't know any installers who are willing to come in and finish another guys mess. I did have a professional installer who only does tile do the shower floor, shower walls and tub surround. The problem for me with working with him is that he drove me completely crazy to be around him. It has been a sticky situation because he wanted to do the whole job and we just couldn't work with him. I certainly can't ask him to come back, I would do it myself first.

The problems that happened at this job site really all rest on my shoulders since I am the homeowner acting as a general contractor. I had no idea what I was getting myself into and I now know that it was a big mistake for me to have taken on this role. I have been the gc on two other pretty major renovation projects but they were nothing like building a new house.

Having said all that, the house is beautiful and not finished. The reason I worked with the installer is because he did such a great job plastering and he did beautiful trim work. I believed him when he said he knew how to tile and while I was waiting for my tile to be delivered he went and did another tile job. He has done a nice job cutting and laying the tile, and I am sure a professional full time tile guy could do a better job. However, having gone this far with the installer I have, I can't quite imagine somebody else being willing to come in and grout.

So, I am wondering how best to proceed. I am thinking now that it would be reasonable to have him grout and just have him do smaller areas and clean up as he goes, or I can follow along and clean up in order to save money since I work for free !

As far as the muriatic acid, what would be the correct dilution? Should we wrap all the metal in the room, light fixtures, plumbing pipes in plastic? There are plenty of windows that we can open and I could use a fan to draw the air out the window. I definitely would want them to use all the safety equipment. gloves, respirator etc. .

I have not paid the installer yet but I find him to be very fair and he feels awful about the mess too. And I have to say that everyone makes mistakes as they work, myself most especially, and as long as they are willing to be part of the solution I can't be too angry. I have been angry enough during this process and there hasn't been one person who has worked on this job that hasn't made some sort of error along the way. That is why it pays to have a good GC there making things run smoothly and unfortunatley I have been two steps behind the curve every step of the way.I am not saying that people shouldn't take responsibility, only that I know that at some time in everyone's career they make a mistake. I suspect every professional on this board has their fair share of war stories. I think that is where all this wisdom comes from. Learning what not to do by someone having done it.


Well, enough philosophy for one morning. Thanks again for your help. If there is a professional on this board that would be willing to come to the site, I still have another shower to tile but I haven't been able to even think about that one! I live in a small town called Colrain which is just west of Greenfield
the town most likely to be located on most maps.

Thanks again,
Ceacy

[kavita]

hi tile guys and gals,

my partner and i were just reading the follow-up posts to ceacy's questions.

we read this thread all the way through, then clicked on Brian's link to the muriatic acid thread.

all i can say is, i love how much stuff i learn when i come here, and how generous folks are with the information they share.

we couldn'tnta done the tilework we did without you.

nor would we have laughed as much as we did, reading your posts!

thanks lots.

kavita

[Ceacy]

Please, does anyone know what dilution I should use for using muriatic acid for removing dried grout on tile inside a bathroom?

Would it help to cover all metal in the room with plastic?

Thanks , time is passing and we still have a big mess on the floor!

Ceacy

[BTM]

most reccomendations will tell you 10 - 1
I would stick with that and use a scrunge/elbow grease

muriatic bubbles up YELLOW when it's doin the job and releases a nasty gas that WILL burn your lungs. So wear a resperator and/or a big ole fan to blow it out the window

plastic won't help if the metal is right up against the tile. better to use some tape and rinse well.

wear some gloves

[Ceacy]

Thank you, Thank You, Thank You!

I was beginning to feel pretty despondent with no answers, so I want you to know how much I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

The metal is not in contact with the tile but I understood that the fumes would corrode metal in the room.

I was wondering how long before washing off the acid?
Also what do I do with the waste water, is there some way to neutralize the acid before I dispose of it?

Thank you to anyone who can help!
Ceacy

[Brian in San Diego]

Ceacy,

Your question should be kept on one thread. If you don't get an answer, either ask it again or bump it. Each time a reply is posted, your thread gets put at the top of the list. The moderators like to keep all questions on one thread, so anyone offering advice knows the "whole" story. You can neutralize the acid with baking soda and once neutralized doesn't pose much threat.

Brian

[Mike2]

I merged your latest question on muriatic acid into your main thread here.

Did you read that other thread you were referred to back in Post # 14? http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...read.php?t=521

With all those serious problems associated with muriatic acid you are still considering it's use?

[Ceacy]

Hi Brian,
I couldn't find my thread even though I read through all the pages and so that is why I asked the question again. I have never been on a forum like this so I apologize for the confusion. Thank you for the answer regarding neutralizing the acid with baking soda. Do you have any reccomendations on how much baking soda to use?

And Mike , thank you for putting my thread where it belonged.
We have not done anything yet but a friend is bringing me a product that she was told has some muriatic acid in it but is a "healthier" alternative. When I get it and read what is in it, I will have a better idea of what to do next.

And we are planning on trying a strong acid as the only alternative seems to be to tear the tile up and I don't believe the installer will be wiiling to do that if we don't at least try the acid first.

Thank you both for your replies.
Ceacy

[Brian in San Diego]

Ceacy,

It doesn't take alot of baking soda to neutralize the amount of acid you'll have. If you have a box handy, you should be fine.

Brian

[doitright]

Hi Ceacy

33% ammonia to 66% water will also neutralize the acid. IF you choose to use muriatic acid I would not suggest anything stronger than 1 part acid to 10 parts water. I'd rather see you use Sure Klean's 600 Detergent found here .