using a kerdi drain in a remodel

[BrendaS1]

ok, I talked with field rep from Schluter today and either he's a great salesman or I really do need to use Kerdi as a system (or both ) I guess I will have my contractor tear up the existing mortar and drain so I can use the entire Kerdi shower system. Hopefully my contractor will be able to figure out how to install it properly from the installation handbook and dvd I gave him and also the Schluter rep said he was available to answer any questions. Do I understand correctly, in the existing shower, there is probably mortar, then a pan liner and then another layer of mortar? And what we will be taking out is the top layer of mortar and the pan liner? The bottom layer of mortar under the pan should be dry and sloped, correct? Does the kerdi floor go over the top of that then? Sorry to ask silly questions, this is not my line of work.

[Brian@BC contracting]

I believe you said this is not on a concrete slab,correct?. If so,and dependant on the age of the shower,most likely you will find under the tile in this order...Tile and grout,dry packed mortar base with some sort of metal lath embedded in it,then a rubber membraine from the drain to the studwall and installed some 1 foot above floor/wall transition.Rip it all out and start fresh. I will send you a PM on where to buy your kit to save you a rather large sum of money... Good luck, BC.

Anyone with basic remodeling skills can install a complete schluter kerdi system. If they are competent,patient and are willing to educate themselves before starting. John's kerdi shower book can be purchased here for under 10 dollars and is worth it. It is a downloaded book which has all the ins and outs.Buy period.

[BrendaS1]

Have you used Spektra Lok epoxy grout? I understand from what I have read that it is the most waterproof, but it can be a pain to apply. It seems half the people love it and say if you follow the directions and clean up after yourself right away it's fine, and the other half say they would never work with it again. Is regular grout and a good sealant enough for a steam shower? I am planning on using Dilex EKE for my floor/wall & ceiling/wall perimeters and corners. I am hoping they will be lower maintenance and serve as expansion joints. I am sure having a shower with an exterior wall and a steam generator in MN frigid winters will cause a lot of movement. I am trying to avoid cracked grout and moldy caulking.

[Brian@BC contracting]

Ah,dilex eke. Was going to use it,but decided against it.Im only using rondec at my doorways in/out of the room,niche shelf,and window sill.wall transition.
Spectra lock,no,i have not.Just bought it today though... this stuff even with my discount is super pricey!! Ill be one of those who likes it...after all, its only grout??. Stay on the directions,and all will be good.No sealer needed with the pro line either. Not a single wipe like tec's Xt line.Im a wiper as i want better control over the finished product regarding my joints.Im using laticrete primarely bc its sand is super fine as to "help" not scratch my glass mosiac,which i will take the time to cover up with painters tape prior... pita!!!

[Tiletim]

Hi Brenda,
just thought I would chime in to let you know that I am a tile contractor up in Princeton and have ties to Andover & Coon Rapids and work in those areas quite often.

Looks like Brian has you on the straight & norrow.

If I can be of any help feel free to PM me, ( I have done plenty of Kerdi installs)

Thanks, Tim

[Kevin Dickinson]

Brenda,
Smart choice in using kerdi - The first time I saw this product was at the Tile Testing Labs in Carolina several years ago. A cardboard box full of water going on three years when I saw it. The only waterproofing I use.

Forget the stories- use Spectra-Lok. Prior to starting have the following in armsreach: Gallon of White Vinegar, Epoxy sponges, normal grout sponges, an expoxy hard float. I mix about 3 cups white vinegar to 1-2 gallons of
clean water for the cleanup. Do Not wait the amount of time recommended
on the box - rather start a test clean up of the epoxy after a five minute wait. If you are working in an area that will not require all the epoxy you have mixed, you may retard the epoxy set time by placing the mix in a refrigerator or cooler. On the cleanup, as soon as you have loosened the epoxy with the course sponge, you'll want to run a normal sponge diagonally
to pick up the epoxy, until the sponge comes up clean. This will insure a no haze dry. After spectra-lok, you would not be happy with cement based grouts. Good Luck

[Brian@BC contracting]

Thanks for that tutoral Kevin! I will be using this epoxy for the first time,and didnt hesitate after reading laticretes spec sheet! On the down side,this stuff is extremely expensive,even with my house account at kate-lo in plymouth! We got Brenda on her way to a great steam room! Not too keen on that dilex trim by schluter though. I think its major overkill.

[BrendaS1]

Thanks for all the replies! Now that I talked my tile guy into digging up the existing shower floor to install the entire Kerdi shower system, it looks like I will have do the same for the Spektra Lock. Is there anyone out there that has used Dilex EKE? Why do you think it's overkill? The reason I wanted to use it is I had my master shower retiled in a different house a few years ago and within the first year or so the perimeter of the floor/wall transition started cracking, and then after sealing it kept getting moldy and it just seemed like high maintenance changing out moldy caulking so often. Also, if you did not do the Dilex EKE, and you use the Kerdi system, if there is moldy caulking on the floor perimeter, when you go to cut it out, isn't there a chance you might cut into the kerdi membrane by accident, creating a hole right where water can get into the easiest if the drain backs up (which mine does sometimes)? Is that logical or not?

[ijs12fly]

Hi Brenda, I hope your project is going well, sounds like its well underway.

I just purchased the Kohler K-1733 steam generator. I am struggling with where to locate it. In the instruction manual it says "Allow for 12" air gap on all sides of the generator". This surprised me bacause all other steam generators (non-kohler) seem to be zero clearance and can be mounted in the wall, vanity, closet, etc. The unit is 19"L x6"W x12"H, so this is asking for a 4ft x 3ft x 18" open space to put this generator. Seems like major overkill. Do you know if the 12" clearance on all sides is "code" or just a safe recommendation by Kohler?

Would you mind sharing how you have yours mounted and how you did the plumbing to it. A pic of what you did would be great if possible. Some specifics I would be curious to know are:

1. Where did you locate your steam generator and how much clearance does it have?
2. Did you use a drip pan and is that plumbed to some type of drain?
3. How did you plumb the Pressure Relief Valve -
4. How far from the shower did you locate it?

[BrendaS1]

We put the steam generator in a dead space right beside the shower. It does not have 12 inch clearance on every side, but three of the sides probably do and I do not have anything else around it. We actually created a cabinet for it with a door that opens so very easy access. Unfortunately my plumber did not follow manufacturer directions and placed the unit higher than the level of the steam head which causes water to continually drip out of the steam head. We could have put it in a different location which would have followed instructions, but now everything is done so Kohler said I should just keep it where it is, and the water dripping is more an annoyance than anything else. The first time I tried to use the unit I got an error code 5 I think and Kohler sent me directions to have the plumber make some modifications to the steam head which solved the problem. I think the fact the steam generator was so close to where the steam head was and it was higher up etc. was maybe the reason for the error code. As far as the drain pan, I don't have one and I asked my plumber about it and he plumbed a drain tube all the way down to my basement utility room drain which I guess is better than just a drain pan. Overall, the unit is very powerful, starts up quickly. Make sure you have the steam head away from where your seating is and maybe not right below shower controls, it gets really hot with the steam coming out and up. Also, if you want to take a regular shower while standing and have the steam generator on at the same time make sure the steam head will not be aiming at your feet. Kohler was really good about answering questions so if you have anything else you need definately try calling them.

[Tiletim]

Brenda, glad you got the steamer up and running.

Let's see some pics

[ijs12fly]

Brenda - thanks for the reply.

So I assume your inspector did not have any concerns with the clearance on the side against the wall?

When you say it drips continually, do you mean that it drips while using the steam shower and for a period after you stop using it while the accumulated steam turns back to water and drips out, or do you mean that it drips 24x7 regardless of the steam generator being used? If it drips when not being used something is wrong. I spoke with Kohler and the solenoid should be closed in the off state so water can not be fed.

I just found out that the unit being a fast response system keeps internal water at 180 deg and the outside of the box will be 120deg all the time. It pulls .085KW/hr to do this. Its like running an 85W lightbulb all day and night. If your unit is in contact with a wall on one side you may want to add some space for fire safety reasons. 120 degs seems pretty hot to me. Another option is to add a switch to the main power and make it a slow response unit.

Could you check the box (quick touch test) and see if the 120deg info is correct that Kohler just gave me?

[BrendaS1]

The steam head does not drip water constantly, I mean continuous when the steam generator is running, but even then it is not a gush of water or anything. There is a small gush of water that sometimes comes out when you first turn it on, but Kohler said that is normal with fast response units.

My husband used it a few hours ago but I touched it now and it does feel hot, but the only place it's really close to anything is by 2 inches of a two by four, and the bottom is on a shelf. I felt the wood it is close to and it does not feel hot, it does not feel hot enough by any means to start a fire, but I suppose I should check on it occasionally. The electrical inspector saw it and didn't say anything about it? At this point it seems to be working ok and I really don't want to demo anything more.

I redid the bathroom for MY "spa" and my husband uses the steam shower more than I do. I think you will be happy with it. Oh, also, I probably got too much KW for my shower, but it is ok. I would go strictly by Kohlers dimensions when trying to decide what KW to buy. I was right at the top end for one size so I decided to go up a size and I maybe didn't need to.

[ijs12fly]

Brenda, Could you describe the space you have the generator in? Is it in and enclosed area (a box of some type). Is there any ventilation to that area? Just curious.

I was going put my unit under my whirlpool area, I have some free space, but its not the 12" on all sides, more like 6" all sides. I obviuosly do not want a fire hazard and my concern is if an inspector asks for the owners manual and sees the 12" note from Kohler I will fail inspection.

Would you be able to give it a heat test when it hasn't been recently used and let me know if its "always" hot. Is 120 deg hot to the touch?

I am also trying to decide if I want this unit buring 85W 24x7. Or if I should put a switch on it.

Thanks for the reply.