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Unread 01-11-2021, 08:44 AM   #31
ss3964spd
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If it is LB you should be able to trace the load path straight down to a load bearing structure; foundation walls, support beam, etc. That of course assumes it was built right. LB interior walls will, in my mind, also be perpendicular to the joists above.

Glad your floor came up without too much of a fight. I just demo'd my guest bath this weekend, I wasn't as lucky.
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Unread 01-13-2021, 05:59 PM   #32
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So I've got a bit of a problem. Pulled up some of my subfloor(all of it will eventually go) to see what the toilet plumbing is like since depending on what I can do with the toilet will determine my final bath layout.

I'm over on Terry Love getting help with moving the toilet but either way I a going to have to remove some of the waste line and sister the joist to the left of the toilet flange.

1. It is my understanding is I can sister at 2/3rds or more of the joist and not have to sister all of the way? There are some copper supplies I'd like not to have to mess with about 12 inches from one of the walls. Total span is 9ft from load bearing wall to load bearing wall.

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Unread 01-13-2021, 07:51 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric
1. It is my understanding is I can sister at 2/3rds or more of the joist and not have to sister all of the way?
I think there is some misunderstanding there, Eric. The only equation I'm aware of involving sistering of floor joists is that if you're sistering for the purpose of reducing deflection, the absolute minimum length you must sister is the center 2/3rds of the unsupported span of the joist.

You've got a bad situation there. I see no way that sistering as a repair will do any good at all in that situation. I can't tell for sure in your photo, but it appears the joist might have been cut away all the way though the bottom below those pipes. Is that the case?
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Unread 01-13-2021, 08:22 PM   #34
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No its not all the way through. There is about 2 inches top and bottom. Would sistering work if I sistered the full length from load wall to load wall? Or maybe blocking and hangers to neighboring joist?
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Unread 01-13-2021, 08:44 PM   #35
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What size are those joists, Eric? I can't find reference to that in the thread.
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Unread 01-14-2021, 07:59 AM   #36
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Thanks CX, thought I had mentioned that. Joist are nominal 2x10, 16" on center, with a 9 ft. Span. Besides the cutouts they are in good shape, no knots ect.
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Unread 01-14-2021, 09:22 AM   #37
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Eric, if you'll look in our Liberry you'll find a thread for Lumber Notching and Boring Guides. Either of the links in there will be helpful in diagnosing the problem you've got

The maximum hole you can bore in a nominal 2x10 floor joist is 3 inches. The minimum wood that must remain from the top or bottom of the joist to a bored hole is 2 inches.

If you meet those guidelines, your joist is considered whole. If you don't, you would need to correct the deficiency.

Viewing your photo, it's gonna be difficult to correct what you've got even with the correct method of "headering off" the deficient joist as would be done in new construction. There's always a way, but the only way plumbers know is to chop away whatever wood is in the way of their pipes. And they're generally not sufficiently careful to cut a hole in the joist rather than just notching it or chopping it off completely.

Without being able to see the rest of your floor and plumbing there's not much I could suggest. If you think you meet the guidelines, or think you're close enough for your comfort level, you can, of course, move on with what you've got.

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Unread 01-16-2021, 11:50 AM   #38
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Thanks CX. The joist isn't whole. Its got about 4 inches at the top but only about 1.5 at the bottom and as you can see its split at the corners of the hole. I did some research on heading off and all and have come up with a possible plan although I'm not sure how much good it will do. I do know it won't be 100% proper. But under the circumstances...



1. I put in a new joist (maybe new sistered joist) where the red line is. I will have to make a hole for the plumbing but I won't butcher it. The question is would the new joist actually do anything. I'd rather not have to cut into my kitchen supply lines if I don't have to.

2. I then put headers on joist hangers apprx where the green lines are. The yellow arrow is pointing to a load bearing wall below so headers there may help spread out the weight.

3. I could also put a joist and headers where the dashed blue lines are. There is actually only a 6 foot span between load bearing walls there.

4. Finally maybe some strapping on the damaged joist to help support it?

5. I am going to have to rework my bathroom plan since my toilet is probably going to have to stay where it is but that's doable.
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Unread 01-16-2021, 04:22 PM   #39
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Eric, I believe the technical term for what you have there is a bit of a mess. Well, that's one of the technical terms, anyway.

Before I try to answer at all, tell me what supports the joist at the top of your photo. The one that's butchered where the sanitary tee at the drain reduction cuts through more than half the top the joist.
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Unread 01-16-2021, 05:17 PM   #40
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Ive come up with a few, colorful technical terms of my own. I believe it is supported by the frame work of the fur downs in the half bath below. Not much but something.

As a side bar. The bathroom previously had ceramic tile. It was not cracked, nor was the grout. I didn't notice any deflection or movement. But I'm not a heavy person. I want to fix it as best can be done but that's something to think about.
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Unread 01-20-2021, 08:45 PM   #41
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On a side note from joist issues which I am working and hope to have fixed this weekend...

1. I am currently planning to put a few rows of stone veneer around the alcove tub (its not a shower). I then one to put the tub spout in and have it closely surrounded by the stone. Long story short waterfall spouts are in short supply and the only one which will work is square. Basically I screw it in and set the stone around it and its not coming out unless the stone does. Not really an issue for me because if I get tired of the spout, Ive gotten tired of the stone and its all coming out.

I can't think of any reason it would need to come out that the stone would also need to come out, i.e. some sort of leak. Am I missing something? No shower so no diverter to fail either.


2. I'm trying to locate a glass company that won't screw the curb when I come to that stage. I am looking to the exposed hardware sliding doors. Has anyone used those? What kind of mounting do they involve? I am having trouble getting clear answers that I can visualize.

One company seems willing to work with me but the other insisted they could use nothing but 2 inch screws all the way through because "we do it all the time with no problem"
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Unread 01-20-2021, 09:17 PM   #42
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Eric, it's far more likely that the fur-down is being supported by the joists than vice-versa. That's joist is not above the wall behind the fur-down, perhaps?

I'm trying to think of ways to fix that joist system. I have some ideas, but I'd really need to be on site to whether they'd be at all feasible. And even then I couldn't likely 'splain it well enough for someone else to do it.

And I can't really understand your highlighted plans well enough to know what to say about them. Complicated situation you've got there.

Maybe you'll get by with what you've got. Maybe not.

As to your glass companies, I'm not surprised. Of course they've never had a problem. By the time the curb has rotted out, what homeowner is likely to call the glass company to come repair it? There are ways to avoid penetrating the waterproof layer on horizontal surfaces. I was taught that by my first glass company soon after I started building houses back in 1995 and we've got a whole world of better adhesives available today than we had then.

For the stone on the tub deck, why would you not set your faucet on top of the stone installation?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-20-2021, 09:24 PM   #43
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I'll know when I've pulled up the rest of the subfloor tomorrow but I think there is room in that furdown to put another 2x8 under the damaged one. I am pretty sure the wall studs are lined up with the joist so I can secure the underneath one with joist hangers and use wood glue and steel straps to help secure it to the damaged one. If I can get it clamped up tight before securing the new one hopefully it will serve to help support damaged one.

The stone veneer I am looking at is not flat with ridges and stuff and I figure there would be ugly gaps between fixture and stone that can't be easily calked (maybe not?). Plus going for a "coming out of the stone" look.
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Unread 01-20-2021, 09:30 PM   #44
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Hope you've cleared that stone plan with your cleaning crew.
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Unread 01-21-2021, 05:55 PM   #45
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I am the cleaning crew and had approved it with myself until you said that, haha. Its not a shower tub combo so can't imagine it will see much water. Other than that I don't see much opportunity for too much dirt. Obviously it will collect dust like anything but although I keep things clean I am more of the "if I can't see or smell it, it doesn't exist" types.

Fwiw I had stone around a tub in an apartment I lived in for a year and it never got very dirty except for some toilet paper dust and it was a dark stone unlike what I've picked out.

But my plans aren't set in stone (pun intended) if I'm headed down a bad road. Does your experience tell you different, CX?

On a side note my tub came in today the the round waterfall spout that I thought was too long actually won't be too long. The least of my problems solved!
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