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Unread 04-06-2009, 07:18 AM   #1
advertguy2
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Dan's Main Bath Project

Hi,

After succesfully completing my slate ensuite (Dan's Slate Shower Project), I'm back for more. I'm redoing the main bathroom in the house.

The tiles have been purchased and are 18x18 walnut travertine. The subfloor has been strengthened with 3/4" ply screwed and glued. Joists below have been sistered. Double 2x8, 16" spacing, 10 foot span. L/738 deflection if I remember correctly.

I will be using Ditra on the floor again and Kerdi on the walls.

My first question has to do with minimum tile size for the Ditra. My wife would like to add some sort of decorative border detail to the floor possible in 5/8" or 1" tile. Now I know from reading the Ditra manual that the minimum is 2" but was wondering if having these smaller tiles in between the larger tiles would make a difference since loading would be distributed over the small and large tiles at the same time. Hopefully I'm explaining it sufficiently. Basically, picture a floor of 18x18 with a strip of 1" or even 5/8". Would those decorative tiles fail because of the Ditra?

As always, thanks in advance for any assistance.

Dan
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Last edited by Brian in San Diego; 05-28-2009 at 07:31 PM. Reason: added link to shower project
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Unread 04-06-2009, 07:38 AM   #2
bbcamp
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The issue with minimum tile size has to do with point loading. You could have a small tile sitting right on top of one of those waffles, and then someone comes along with their high heels and steps on it, and the waffle collapses, (or what ever it does), and then the tile either breaks or comes out. Try to find an accent with 2x2 tiles, or switch to another type of underlayment.
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Unread 04-06-2009, 08:16 AM   #3
advertguy2
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Hi Bob,

Thanks for the reply. I figured that it was pointload that would be the problem. The way I see it though is that it's a main bathroom and shoes aren't worn indoors in my house. I know that anything is possible though. If a small 5/8" tile located directly over one of the ditra columns is stepped on with high heels then wouldn't the thinset in the surrounding waffles help to brace the sides of the column to prevent it from buckling/collapsing? The columns are only like 1/4" wide as well so the tile could span over to the thinsetted waffles as well. I'm not trying to argue and really apprecate the response you gave above. I just think 2" may be too conservative in this situation. Tiling the entire floor in 5/8" wouldn't be a good idea obviously...

I still have to check out accent tiles with my wife anyways, so this could all be for nothing.

Thanks,

Dan
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Unread 04-06-2009, 09:58 AM   #4
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It ain't my call, Dan. You can discuss it with Herr Schluter, but I hear he's pretty hard-headed when it comes to his specifications.
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Unread 04-06-2009, 11:42 AM   #5
advertguy2
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Hard headed eh....

I think I'll just stick with my engineering principles along with enforcing a no high heels in the bathroom rule for my daughters.

Thanks,

Dan
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Unread 04-06-2009, 12:33 PM   #6
advertguy2
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I have another question with regards to layout for the wall where the tub is located.

The tub is a 3 sided alcove but I got a tub that doesn't have a built in apron so that i could tile the front. The total length of the wall where the tub is is about 6.5 feet. Tub is 5 feet long. Therefore, I have about 1.5 feet of wall that is even with the outside face of the tub. Hopefully I'm somewhat clear.

Now, my ceiling height is 8 feet. Tiles are 18". That gives me 5 and 1/3 tiles to the ceiling. I need to start with a full tile on the bottom to make the tub apron look nice. So that leaves me with 2 options for locating the 6" strip of tile. Do I put it around midheight and make it a feature (like a stripe) or do I put it at the ceiling?

Thanks for any advice.

Dan
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Unread 04-24-2009, 06:49 AM   #7
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Kerdi Fix

Hi,

Will be ordering a tube of Kerdi Fix in the next couple of days for securing the kerdi to the tub flange and wanted to make sure that 1 tube is enough for a standard 60x32 alcove tub (total length of kerdi-fixin' just over 10 feet).

Thanks,

Dan
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Unread 05-28-2009, 12:49 PM   #8
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Smile

OK,

Hoping this question gets answered...

Hopefully my question from 2 posts back will get answered as well, but I think I'm going to go with the 6" "racing stripe" at mid height unless told otherwise.

On to my new question...

As mentioned earlier, main tile is 18x18 travertine, 1/2" thick. On the wall of the shower and on the floor of the bathroom I will be putting in a rectangular border detail of 1x1" dark emperador. The dark emperador is 3/8" thick.

Whats the best way to make up this difference in height between the tiles? Just more thinset under the emperador mosaics since it's only 1/8"? Or should I mount the mosaics on something like kerdi first and then set them on the floor/wall with the idea being that the extra kerdi will make up the difference?

Thanks in advance for hopefully answering both of the questions here.

I already ordered my kerdi-fix and hopefully 1 tube will be enough.

Thanks again,

Dan
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Unread 05-28-2009, 01:22 PM   #9
bbcamp
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Where to put the accent stripe is a matter of personal taste. Try laying out your ideas on the wall using masking tape, go with what suits your eye best.

Making up the 1/8" difference under the 1" mosaics should not be done simply by using more thinset as you set the tile. This will bite you as the excess thinset will ooze up between the tiles and be a real bear to keep clear. Using strips of Kerdi to make up the difference is a much better idea. You will need to switch to a smaller v-notch trowel for the mosaics, so 2 layers of Kerdi may be necessary. Apply the Kerdi to the area to receive the mosaics.
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Unread 05-28-2009, 02:13 PM   #10
advertguy2
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Thanks Bob.

I never thought of using a smaller trowel for the mosaics... Would have learned my lesson really fast I'm sure. So you're saying I should set the kerdi on the floor first rather than setting the tiles on the kerdi and then going on to the floor?

After thinking about it while I type here, setting the tiles on the kerdi first would be a bad idea because I'll have all sorts of movement as I move the sheet around to set it on the floor later.

Thanks for making me think it through!

For setting kerdi to kerdi, I assume I should stick with the v-notch I use for putting the kerdi on to the wall?

As for the layout, I'll probably go with the strip at midheight. Adds a bit of interest I think but it's subtle since it's the same tile. Did it with my slate shower and I like it.

Thanks again,

Dan
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Unread 06-17-2009, 06:48 AM   #11
advertguy2
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OK, got the kerdi all installed a couple weekends ago along with the ditra on the floor. It's amazing how much faster things went the second time around.

Going to start tiling the floor this weekend I believe. Tile is 18x18x1/2"thick honed travertine. I want to make sure I don't get any lippage caused by the tile settling after it's been set and I've gone to bed. Would Versabond be fine for the floor to prevent this or should I go with something a bit fancier? Megalite? That Marble and Granite stuff? I won't be using any of the systems like LASH or TLS.

The plan is to try and use a 1/4"x1/4" square notch trowel (backbuttering each piece as well) to keep the height to a minimum. I'll check for coverage by lifting a few.

Any advice on the best thinset would be greatly appreciated.

Dan
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Unread 06-17-2009, 08:08 AM   #12
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Laticrete 220 (I think) is their unmodified Marble and Granite medium set mortar. I'd use it over your Ditra. I'd also use a 1/4"x3/8"x1/4" trowel. This will give you more mortar to work with without worrying about sinking. The extra thickness will come in handy to get all the tiles on plane.
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Unread 06-17-2009, 09:30 AM   #13
advertguy2
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Hi Bob,

Unfortunately I can't get Laticrete up in my area (Toronto, Canada). I'm not too concerned about using modified versus unmodified since by the time I get around to grouting (month or two) I would think the thinset would have cured. Thats just my theory though and have based it on reading previous posts in this forum. Not based on real world experience at all.

So anyways, I'm actually not sure if my HD carries the Custom Marble and Granite in white but I guess I'll check today. Would the Marble and Granite (from Custom) be preferred to the Megalite?

http://www.custombuildingproducts.co...er=diy&lang=en

Thats the link to the Custom Marble and Granite. I noticed that it only says Canada so I'm not sure if you can get it down in the US.

Thanks,

Dan
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Unread 06-17-2009, 10:10 AM   #14
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Megalite is more expensive because it has a higher portion of modifiers in it. You don't need the extra flexibility that these modifiers add. My guess is that they will also retard curing, which you don't need either. Granite and Marble mortar is fine, if you can get it in white.
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Unread 06-17-2009, 11:51 AM   #15
advertguy2
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Got it in white. Guess I never noticed it before in white because I wasn't looking for it. $32 per bag, only about $10 more per bag than the Versabond white. Half of what the Megalite costs.

Thanks for the assistance Bob.
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