Accessible Bathroom Renovation

[tev9999]

I'm working on renovating a bathroom to make it accessible/safe for my elderly mother. I have already gutted the 9x7 room. The original plan was to just turn the 30x60 tub into a curbed shower, but we are now looking at stealing some space from an adjacent closet to make it 42x48 or 48x48.

I plan on doing most of the work myself, but am meeting with a contractor tonight to handle the framing and drywall work - I hate drywall. I've done plumbing, kitchen tile, electrical, .... but never a shower pan.

Questions:

- Is 42x48 a logical size, or would 48 square be better?

- I assume the shower head should be perpendicular to the entry to avoid a flood if the curtain is open. I also assume I should put the controls within reach from the outside of the shower, even if it means it is offset from the shower head.

- We are putting a pocket door in that will slide behind one of the tile walls. Will this be rigid enough for tile, or should I have him add framing to add a little more structure? It would also be nice to have grab bars on all walls and I don't know that I can do that with a pocket door in the wall.

- What is a rough estimate on cost difference between Kerdi and traditional concrete backer and mud pan? How much time would it save me as a newbie?

- I have already removed the old tile and concrete/lath floor. There is a very thin wood veneer (1/64" maybe) that was put over the original 3/4 subfloor. Some has lifted, but most is secure. Do I need to worry about pulling it all up or leveling if I am covering it with 1/4 hardi and thinset?

I probably have more questions, but thanks for any advice to start.

[bbcamp]

42x48 would seem to be ample space. Bigger might be better if a wheelchair accessible shower was needed.

Your ideas on showerhead and control placement are on target.

I'd try to avoid the pocket door where you are tiling, especially if grab bars are involved.

I have no idea of the cost difference or the time difference for a newbie installer. The costs of a Kerdi shower are higher, especially if you opt for many of the accessories, such as foam curbs, shower seals. You can get the costs down by using only the drain, Kerdi-mat, Kerdi-band and Kerdi-fix. You can do without all esle. All shower installation methods have a learning curve, and Kerdi is no exception. Many newbies have had a easy time learning to install it, while others stumble frequently. However, same is true with a PVC liner and backerboard shower.

I'd remove that veneer. It may not hurt anything if you left it in, but why take a chance? A bigger question is the grade of the plywood. Can you identify it?

[tev9999]

What if I had him frame a thin wall (1.5" - 2x4 on edge) inside the pocket door wall? The pocket door is very desirable due to the limited space and maneuverability - right now she is using a walker and swing doors can be a pain. I would think that would help firm things up and be easy/cheap since the walls are already open.

How would I identify the plywood grade? I believe it is 3/4 inch. Original floor from the late 1960s construction.

[tev9999]

Also, in a 42x48 layout, the shower head would be on a 48" wall. Would that be odd? I'm used to a standard 30x60 tub where the water flow is parallel to the longer wall.

[tev9999]

I'm looking at building a 42 x 48" tiled shower with three full walls and a curb. Initially I was going to go with 6x6 tiles, but am thinking 12x12 might be better.

My research tells me that it is mainly a personal preference as to what size tile looks best. I'm fine with both. My research also tells me 6x6 take longer to set, but can be more forgiving when it comes to uneven walls and such. It is also more expensive.

I'm going to have a contractor do the framing of the three (mostly) new walls, so I would expect everything to be straight, level and square. Is there any reason a novice like me should not attempt to use 12x12 tiles? Seems the easiest and cheapest option that will still look good.

Also, any reason to not take the tiles all the way to the ceiling?

[cx]

Welcome, Tom.

Please keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered.

Tile size is entirely a personal choice.

Tile as high as your taste dictates.

Nothing special about 12x12 tiles. You want the walls to be flat.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[tev9999]

Project is coming along, just slower than I would like. It does make for a great workout! Progress so far:

Replaced the door with the 36" pocket door and framed the shower with a new support wall inside. The rough opening is 42x48.

Plumbing is done.

Shower pan is done using a PVC liner. The deck mud calculator was a huge help here, and quite accurate. I did have to scrap the first liner after I miscut the outside corner.

Cement board (1/2) is on the shower walls and hardibacker (1/4) on the floor.

I selected a 12 x 18 " tile, mainly because it was on clearance so cheap. It is a full body porcelain at 11 mm thick @ $1.40/sqft. This will be both the room floor and shower walls. Shower floor will be 2x2 mosaic. I picked up a cheap QEP tile saw at Home Depot for $89 - hopefully that will get me through the job.

I have not formed the curb yet. I used 2x3s as the base because I was planning on keeping it as narrow as possible for accessibility. Now I've decided I would rather just use a stock marble curb threshold that comes in a 6.5" width since I am low on time and don't want to deal with custom cutting one for 1".

Is it a problem to use 2" of mortar on the inside of the curb to make up the extra inch of curb base?

The tile back is a swirled ridge pattern - not waffled. Do I need to backbutter? Is a 3/8 x 3/8 trowel the best choice for applying the thinset? Smaller notch for walls or mosaic?



Thanks again.

[tev9999]

Picture of the framing and pre-slope to help clarify.

[Ceci]

Tom, didn't see mention of a bench. Are you putting one in? I did since my mother lives with me and I'm not getting any younger either.

Editting: Re. the marble curb threshold. May be a good idea to have the edge profiles "eased" if not already done and for sure not have a square edge since ouch.

Ceci

[tev9999]

No hardi on the shower floor - that is on the rest of the room (with thinset and screwed down). The shower floor is mud over lath and poly slip sheet.

Rethinking the curb mortar, I set the 2x3s 1.25" from the face of the drywall opening. I was thinking I wanted the tile flush with the drywall, but that is wrong since I am also going to use the tile as molding. If I did 1.25 on front and back, I have 5" total with the 2x3s. Tile plus thinset should take that just over 6", which will leave me a little drip edge overhang on the inside. Is 1.25" an acceptable mortar thickness?

Did not do a built in bench. We already have a portable shower seat. We are envisioning that at some point, if not right away, she will need help and the moveable seat seems to be a much more flexible option for an assistant.

[tev9999]

I built about a five inch wide curb last night. Looks like I mixed the mortar a little too thin and ended up with a slump problem - I could not keep the sides from collapsing a bit even after 45 minutes of set time. I was under the gallon recommendation on the 60 lb bag of quikcrete mortar mix, but guess I didn't need that last cup or so.

I ended up having to frame it in with a couple 1x6s to keep things straight. Any issue with that?

[cx]

Probably not, but we can't really see it from here, Tom.

[tev9999]

The curb came out pretty good. I did get one ridge where I had to butt two boards to frame it, but I should be able to clean that up.

On to tile layout. I want to do a brickwork pattern on the floor and walls. Floor will have the 18" tile dimension running along the long wall. That is straightforward.

For the shower walls, I want the 18" dimension horizontal. Does this layout make sense for the shower walls? The 48 x 41 dimensions are with cement board up, and the ceiling is 81" from the pan edge. Is it better to cut the bottom row or top row of tiles?

[tev9999]

The QEP saw is not going to work out. Only made it through half a tile before I smelled burning motor. Back it goes.

I managed to get a weekend special on a 24" Imer Saw Rental - $99 out the door if I get it back by 9am Monday. Not sure the model since I will pick it up tonight, but I'm guessing any of them will work much better.

[tev9999]

Well I'm getting close to done. Tile is all in, just have to grout the shower. It took me two weekends, but with their weekend specials it only cost me about $150 total for five days with the saw.

My other issue is the toilet. My new floor is a bit lower than the old, so the flange is too high. Looks like I get to have some fun cutting cast iron.

Last step will be the grab bars. This tile is very tough - Grade 5 porcelain and 11mm thick. A masonry bit is useless against it. I managed to cut the hole for the shower head pipe with a couple diamond Dremmel wheels from Harbor Freight. They worked pretty well when I kept them wet.

Any experience with these diamond bits from HF? http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece...its-32375.html I'm trying to avoid spending major dollars on tools I will probably never need again.