Some questions about a bathroom remodel

[CaraM]

Hi,
I have spent a few days reading this forum and have had many of my questions answers. However, I do still have a few.
I live in the Phoenix area and have a 45 year-old block house on a slab. The bathrooms are in desperate need of an upgrade. I demolished the master bath last weekend and the plumber has come in to replace the pipes in the house. Here are my current concerns:

1) The shower pan is about 3 inches lower than the top of the slab. When I chipped out the old pan down to the crumbling roofing material used for the liner, I got to a thin layer of concrete (not sloped). I figured I would build my pre-slope on top of that. However, close to the studs where some of the vent pipes are exposed are some small areas of Arizona dirt. Is this a problem or can I build right on top of that?

2) I have purched 1" Dal tile unglazed ceramic hex mosaic for the shower floor and the rest of the bathroom floor. Do I need to seal that?

3)When I purchased the tile, I was also sold a bucked to Tec tile adhesive. After reading several threads in this forum, I get the impression that I should return that bucket un-opened and mix my own thinset. If so, should I use latex additive?

4) I also bought plain ole bathroom tile for the shower walls, I was told I don't need spacers and they are designed to sit atop one another without them. I really like clean lines so should I get spacers?

Thank you in advance to anyone who responds. I have really enjoyed reading these threads. I love all the pictures of works in progress, I might try to add some of my own.

Cara

[jadnashua]

I'll try on a couple of your points...

Take the mastic back...it has no place anywhere it could get wet.

Is the tile a porcelain? Is it rated for floors or walls? If not rated for a floor, then you should take it back, too. If it is a porcelain, they typically are quite dense and won't absorb any moisture to speak of. The specs on the tile should be available eitheron the web or from the dealer.

If the wall tile have little lugs on their edges, they are made to butt up to each other, sort of like built-in spacers. You still need to grout them once you are done, though, but you don't need spacers.

I'm not sureabout the soil around some of the vent pipes. Probably not a big deal, but one of the pros will have some definite thoughts.

[bbcamp]

Welcome, Cara!

1) Yes, your preslope will cover the Arizona dirt. If there is a lot of the dirt, dig it out and pack the hole with more deck mud or gravel.

2) If the tile is porcelain, no, you don't need to seal. However, you will be sealing the grout, and it will be next to impossible to keep from slopping some on the tiles, so stand ready to wipe the surfaces clean before the sealer gets gummy.

3) Yes, use a latex modified thinset. Versabond is a good choice and is sold at HD.

4) The little spacer lugs on wall tiles makes the smallest grout line possible. I'm not sure what you would accomplish by using spacers, except to open up the lines some more. Most folks don't want that, though.

[CaraM]

Thanks for the quick replies. I looked up my floor tile on the Dal tile Website. It is rated for shower floors, but no where does it say porcelain. So I assume it is not. I need some sort of sealer then? The very nice men at the tile store said I didn't but they also sold me the bucket of adhesive and told me I didn't have to put anything behind my backer boards. I will put a water proof membrane back there though.

By the way, all the power that comes to the house runs behind the shower. Problem? Doesn't really seem to have been for 45 years but I don't want to press my luck. Not that I would know, I have only lived here a year.
cara

[jadnashua]

Well, porcelain is ceramic, but not all ceramic is porcelain. A normal ceramic floor tile would require a glaze, so, since yours isn't and is rated for floors, my guess is that it is porcelain. Typically, they do not require a sealer, only the grout. If you use an epoxy grout, then you don't need any sealer, but that is another thing altogether. There should be a couple of ratings for the tile - one is permiability or water absorbtion. For porcelain, this is often down in the small fractions of a percent. ANother spec is the hardness or wear rating. The higher this number is, the harder it is (I think it goes up to a 5). Well, there is another rating, and that is dry and wet coefficent of slip - i.e., how slippery it is both dry and wet.

[CaraM]

Ok a new question. I removed the toilet from the floor so I could pry up some peeling linolium tiles. In the process of removing the toilet and cleaning off the wax ring, part of the cast iron flange crumbled. I bought a cast iron flange repair kit which was a plastic compression fit flange. The drain pipe appeared to be in good shape. I had to put the toilet back on even though we are still in the process of working as it was needed. The toilet is operational, but it does not fit flush with the slab. I assume that is fine as I will once again remove the toilet and tile the floor. My concern is that the flange will still sit a bit above the tiles. Should I build up the floor with deck mud? Just around the toilet?
Thanks again,
cara

[jadnashua]

The flange should have its bottom flush on top of the finished floor (it should stick up from the floor), so depreding on the thickness of your tile, you might be fine.

[CaraM]

If I'm not, then some deck mud? Also, is this kind of flange repair acceptable? The toilet, though off the floor isn't leaking.

cara

[jadnashua]

Most flanges are in the order of 1/4" thick give or take a little (the part that is above the finished floor). If it is much higher than that, the toilet will not seat properly. The floor needs to also be flat, or the toilet will rock. Either problem will cause leaks. If your repair flange sits too high, you might just have to break apart the floor and fix it. My unprofessional opinion.

[CaraM]

I forgot to say thanks Jim. Thank you

[CaraM]

The plumber will replace it. Probly best

[bbcamp]

When he does, remember to have him set it so it is on top of the tiles. Use a few spare pieces of tile and some cardboard (shirt box) to act as a spacer gage. When you tile, slide the tiles under the flange.

[CaraM]

Here is the order I planned to do the work

Frame curb
build shower pre slope (dry overnite)
install shower pan liner
test liner
install CBU on shower walls
build bench
mud curb
deck mud on shower floor
tile walls save last row
tile floor
tile last row of walls
grout walls
grout floor

[bbcamp]

Frame curb
install tarpaper and lath on subfloor (if wood)
build shower pre slope (dry overnite)
install shower pan liner
test liner
moisture barrier on studs (if that's what you want to do, see more at bench)
install CBU on shower walls
build bench
apply surface waterproofer on bench (and rest of shower if you don't want to use poly behind the CBU)
install lath over curb (may want to re-test liner after this, lath is sharp!)
mud curb
deck mud on shower floor
tile walls save last row
tile floor
tile last row of walls
grout walls
grout floor

[CaraM]

Ok here we go
Frame curb (do I need backing blocks for liner?) and notch studs
build shower pre slope on concrete slab (dry overnite)
install shower pan liner
test liner
moisture barrier on studs (roofing material or plastic sheeting ?)
install CBU on shower walls
build bench
apply surface waterproofer on bench (and rest of shower if you don't want to use poly behind the CBU) will use liner behind CBU
install lath over curb (may want to re-test liner after this, lath is sharp!) good tip
mud curb
deck mud on shower floor
tile walls save last row
tile floor
tile last row of walls
grout walls
grout floor

I'm not worthy