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Unread 07-06-2009, 12:11 PM   #1
wopachop
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crack suppression membrane over dry pack shower floor

im confused. whats the point of having weep holes and a porous dry pack shower floor if its going to become waterproof by a membrane?

if water does get under a tile it will just sit there and never drain through.

whats the deal?
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Unread 07-06-2009, 01:24 PM   #2
Scottish Tile and Stone
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Normally when you do your preslope then when you put your liner in, you unclamp the drain which is where the wheepholes are. Then when you re-clamp the drain, the wheepholes are ontop of the liner.... I would imagine it would kinda be the same thing when using a liquid membrane. Unclamp the drain. ( should use the divot method), roll on your membrane then re-clamp. You can always drill holes in the neck of the drain for more security.
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Unread 07-06-2009, 01:55 PM   #3
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wopachop
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im confused. whats the point of having weep holes and a porous dry pack shower floor if its going to become waterproof by a membrane?

if water does get under a tile it will just sit there and never drain through.

whats the deal?
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1. The crack suppression won't waterproof the floor since there is only one drain clamp and it will be below the crack suppression at the base of the weepholes.

2. There is no point. That floor does not need a second membrane.

3. The architect is probably clueless.
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Unread 07-06-2009, 02:03 PM   #4
wopachop
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hmm...ok now im more confused. i live in socal where the norm is to use a hot mop shower pan. its a prelope mortar bed...followed by tar and paper....followed by deck mud to form your final slope to accept the tiles.

im more concerned about the top layer of deck mud. im going to install little 1/2" glass mosaic tiles. im worried about water forming underneath the glass tile since its a shower floor.

the manufacture gave me a number to this guy....who told me to let the top layer of deck mud cure for a weak. then apply an isolation membrane on top of that. he said i liquid membrane like red guard would be fine.

so im trippin out....maybe little 1/2" mosaics are so small they dont need an isolation membrane.

if i do use one than it renders the weep holes obsolete.

any thoughts fellas?

here is a pic of the drain and hot mop floor....

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Unread 07-06-2009, 02:05 PM   #5
wopachop
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just saw your reply kotter.

yeah man that guy wants me to red guard the top layer of deck mud.

this is a horrible idea right?

ive been reading so many threads of water under glass mosaics in showers. so ide really like to keep that from happening....
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Unread 07-06-2009, 02:45 PM   #6
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Kerdi drain and Kerdi, problem solved.
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Unread 07-06-2009, 03:19 PM   #7
wopachop
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you know what man the next shower job i get is definitely going to be kerdi. really looking forward to trying that stuff out.
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Unread 07-06-2009, 03:21 PM   #8
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wopachop
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yeah man that guy wants me to red guard the top layer of deck mud.

this is a horrible idea right?

ive been reading so many threads of water under glass mosaics in showers. so ide really like to keep that from happening....
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I would not say horrible idea. I would say, not practical. I don't think the architect really knows the technical aspects of the install.

There are surface membranes that go on top of the mud like kerdi or subsurface membranes that go under the mud like a vinyl liner. There is no point in using both unless you know of a drain that actually can be connected to two liners. Are there any drains that can be connected to both? I don't know of any. If you can only connect the pan once then the second pan won't hold water anyway.
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Unread 07-06-2009, 07:09 PM   #9
gueuzeman
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I believe you are all missing the point.

They are asking for a crack supression membrane, not a second waterproofing membrane. While waterproofing can be used for crack supression, not the other way around.

Kotter- Tony said nothing about an architect, I'm guessing these instructions came with the tile. I've read the same from a glass manufacturer, in fact, the tile came with 8 or 9 sheets of instructions!

Mud your floor. cure and Red gaured ONE coat, not waterproof. viola.



These glass tiles required a crack suppression under the thinset-





gueuze

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Unread 07-06-2009, 07:40 PM   #10
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good postin gueuze. nice shower by the way
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Unread 07-06-2009, 08:38 PM   #11
wopachop
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Mud your floor. cure and Red gaured ONE coat, not waterproof. viola.
wow that shower is beautiful!!!!

im totally lost now...so cure the deck mud. then redGuard it. how is that not waterproof?
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Unread 07-06-2009, 08:44 PM   #12
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Seems to me after being enlightened by Guezeman on the phone the other night that this divot method would be perfect for you. Only real problem if you will have two waterproofing no matter what now that it has been hot mopped.

Sure seems to me that glass with some spetralck or other epoxy grout shouldn't let any in from the top. I guess your just worried about it coming up from on top of the hot mop then.
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Unread 07-06-2009, 09:05 PM   #13
Davy
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Even if it's for preventing cracks, it will still act as a second membrane. I don't like the idea myself. It won't seal very good around the drain. That's why they want it to dry a week, they know if you put down the Redgard with moisture still in the mud, it may never dry out. And, you better hope the drain never gets stopped up or water will be coming up the weepholes into the mudbed, again, having a hard time drying out.

Hey, maybe I'm all wet.
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Unread 07-06-2009, 09:10 PM   #14
wopachop
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hey davy is the best answer just dont worry about a isolation membrane since the mosaics are only 1/2 inch thick anyway?
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Unread 07-06-2009, 09:11 PM   #15
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sorry not 1/2 inch thick.....they are 8mm thick. 1/2" wide
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