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Unread 08-11-2016, 10:47 AM   #1
customceramicsllc
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Large format tiles

Got into bother with porcelanosa 39.,5"x12" wall tiles.Designer specced running bond so soft ass just went for it.Ran into lippage problems due to the fact the tiles had a bow in them!Ended up tearing them out and walkjing off the job.ANY GUYS HAVE THESE ISSUES? I WONT BE DOING THEM NO MORE.
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Unread 08-11-2016, 01:45 PM   #2
ded dux
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TCNA calls for max of 33% offset with large format. What does the manufacture suggest? Some say they are okay at 50%. Sorry for your troubles though, no fun.
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Unread 08-11-2016, 08:51 PM   #3
MNTileGuy
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Invest in a leveling system. They can often help take some of the bow out of LFT. That said, if they're REALLY bowed, you're gonna have problems no matter what.
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Unread 08-11-2016, 09:15 PM   #4
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Never walked away from a job I started. I always request a mock up when 50% split is spec'd. Start a mock up for a 21k/sf 18x36 50% split job next week.
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Unread 08-11-2016, 09:48 PM   #5
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Although I still recommend no more than the 33% offset, I'll do the 50% for an extra 2.00 a foot to pay for the straps and the time to use them. I've yet to see a bow so bad that I couldn't take it out using the TLS system. But it DOES take extra time, and that equates to extra money.
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Unread 08-12-2016, 05:01 AM   #6
tilemanct
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I would find it hard to believe Porcelanosa tile to be so bowed you couldn't do a 50% offset. Those sizes are usually rectified. You will need a leveling system to get that almost zero lippage though. Prep of the surface has to be flat as possible. If you pull up the specs on Porcelanosa's website they will tell you if a 50% offset is allowed. All these things need to be brought to the attention of the designer and G/C. As everyone has said, a mock up will be necessary if they want to do something the manufacturer does not allow. You also get to charge way more for tiles of that size!!!
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Unread 08-22-2016, 08:40 PM   #7
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With many of the large format rectangular porcelain tiles on a brick pattern, you can achieve a surface with no lippage only if you are tiling the outside of a water tank. I fought that issue on a large project I was on in 2014. The walls were spec'd for 12x24 on a running bond with the bowed tile, and I split the difference and set the tile with a straightedge. Some of the other setters in the company used the Tuscan levelers and their walls bowed out an inch over 8 feet.

The architectural firm also specified all of the lighting at the edge of the walls (downlighting) that made the characteristics really show up. When the glazers set the big mirrors over the Tuscan leveled tile, the curve in the wall opposed to the flat mirror left a HUGE gap at the sides of the mirrors.

The tile was rectified, all edges were cut to the exact same size.

There really does not seem to be a way to bake the stuff and not have it bow out (also known as "pillow") to some degree. Natural stone would be the only large format tile to lay flat on a brick pattern every time.
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Unread 08-22-2016, 09:20 PM   #8
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John,

Rectified refers to the vertical edges of the tiles - all being the same. Rectified has nothing to do with the horizontal surface of the tile. It can be flat or bowed and still qualify as rectified.

Remember - all Doritos are rectified before hitting the fry vat.
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Unread 08-23-2016, 12:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
Rectified has nothing to do with the horizontal surface of the tile.
If you'll check your A137.1 you'll find the allowances for warpage are different for Rectified tiles than for Natural or Calibrated tiles, Paul.
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Unread 08-23-2016, 05:51 AM   #10
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Huh. You learn something new every day. I didn't think it made a difference either. I've seen so called recitified tile that I could use as a bowl.
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Unread 08-23-2016, 06:21 AM   #11
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Thanks for pointing that out CX, but in my world of practicality the standard doesn't make much of a difference when it comes to flatness
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Unread 08-23-2016, 06:54 AM   #12
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Paul, that's an interesting comment and, at heart, it's true. The standard doesn't change what shows up in the box. What the standard does, though, is give manufacturers a target. We (OK, I don't manufacture tile anymore but I spent a LOT of years doing it) set the equipment that measures tile at the end of the line to the standard minus a bit so we're never out of spec, at least in theory. Do mistakes happen? Absolutely. Do certain manufacturers push it? Of course. The other super power of standards is they give you a platform from which to push back. A "Dear Manufacturer, ANSI says you get 2MM and these are 4MM" letter is much harder to refute than "These tiles are crap." Knowledge is power, I know that's a cliche but it's a true one.
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Unread 08-23-2016, 01:50 PM   #13
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Dan-- if the shoe fits..... (these tiles are crap)

Years ago when I was an apprentice, my father sent me down to Trenton to pick up a truck load of tile From the Wenzel factory. While I was there, he asked Tom Wenzel to give me a tour of the factory so I could get an idea of what went into making the tile. When it got to the QC room (keeping in mind that I'd already worked in the field for a while and saw first hand how bad Wenzel Tile was) There were 4 women in there, standing in front of an assembly line belt as the tile wizzed by them. now, granted there were some bad tiles they were picking off the line. I mean BUTTERFLIES. But I saw what goes out onto the job sites, and thought there HAS to be a better way!! I won't name any names, but there are a few out there today that make Wenzel look like top shelf stuff!
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Unread 08-23-2016, 02:11 PM   #14
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Oh yeah, I remember Wenzel tiles fondly, they always made ours look exceptionally good

Modern tile factories have done away with the "4 ladies in a room" technique in favor of laser gauges that measure each tile and assign it a lane based on size. Defective tiles (due to warpage, visual defects, chips, etc) go into 2nds or even 3rds don't have a 'STD Grade' marking. There are a small percentage of non-standard tiles allowed in a box by ANSI so having the occasional flier isn't impossible. If they're all that way, you should gripe.
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Unread 08-23-2016, 03:51 PM   #15
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Im checking my A137.1 like a good tile setter always does and its the ANSI spec for COF.
What does that have to do with warped tile? Am I missing something?


A few years back I had some Dal quarry cove base get delivered. Like Bill's tile,they were so warped I could have eaten breakfast out of a few of them.
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