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Unread 11-26-2012, 11:53 PM   #1
coldsolderjoint
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Ed's Half-Bath Overhaul

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your help so far these many months.

We've decided to skip the projects list to the half bathroom, so here is the new thread to keep everything organized.

I started demo tonight. Pikturs are here too.

This bathroom was pretty skeezy since we bought the house, it was my understanding that less than favorable renters lived here before us.. time to get out the hammer. The original tile seemed to be installed well, but it was stained, and had a rough texture, and seemed like it just couldn't be cleaned. So its time for a re-do.

I was able to "pop-up" some of them on the sides, but it seemed like the most effective way to get the middle tiles out was to just smash them to tiny pieces. During this, I realized this might have been a better candidate for tile over tile than I originally thought, but oh well.. its done now.

I have a few questions.

1. Toilet flange. The flange seems to be installed properly. It sits on top of the tile and is screwed through into the floor. How do I treat this with the new tile? Options I thought about where cutting the existing tile close to the flange with a grinder or a dremel and just butting the new tile against it (old tile will be covered by toilet. Or Smash it all out and try to sneak the new tile under the flange. New tile seems like its a hair thicker than the old stuff.

2. Removing durock without damaging plywood too badly? Whats the best way to do this? Is it one of those "Best way that seems to work things?

3. We went to the real tile store and found some tiles that the misses loves and at a good price in their "outlet" (back of warehouse), and also bought thinset and grout there.

Heres the plan:

Replace 1/2" Durock (Thinset underneath)
12x24 Stonepeak Ceramic Tiles Run long ways in running bond. 1/8" spacers
TEC Fortiflex 2 with 1/2" trowel
TEC 550 Ultimate Performance Grout.

Any objections/suggestions otherwise?

4. The tile store guy said I don't need to seal the tiles or this grout since its performance grout. Is this true?

5. I know this is a simple pattern, but is there a set of "rules" to go by for layout.. then adjust to your specific situation? My other floor came out ok, but some of the lines weren't square or straight, and I want this one to be better.
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Unread 11-27-2012, 03:10 AM   #2
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You're on the right track. With Durock, how it was put down can determine how it comes up. I generally use a long prybar under the edge. It sends little pieces of concrete everywhere, so wear eye protection.

How you proceed from that point will be determined by what you find underneath the Durock. However it goes, I would use 1/4" board on the floor instead of 1/2" unless you just need the extra height. That may also solve the problem of the new tile being a little thicker.

As far as the flange goes, you may find that the tile all comes out when you start tearing up the Durock around it. Try it and see.

Before settling on the 1/8" grout joint, I would thoroughly check those tile for size. If they're off a tiny bit, you could end up losing part of that grout joint, which you really can't afford when it's that small.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the thinset or grout you mentioned. Someone else will likely know about them.

And go ahead and replace that shutoff valve on the toilet before people start talking.
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Unread 11-27-2012, 08:39 AM   #3
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Eddie, to make a running bond with tiles that size is always a bit problematic and success depends upon the flatness of your tiles and substrate. The industry recommendation is that you not offset the joints on that long side by more than one-third the length of the tile.

If your tiles are extraordinarily flat, you may get by with a full 50 percent offset, but don't count on it. You may not be successful with a 33 percent offset with some tiles.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 11-27-2012, 09:13 AM   #4
coldsolderjoint
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Thanks Guys.. When I get it all ripped out and the new durock down, I will lay out the tiles better than before and let the misses know about the 1/3 recommendation.
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Unread 03-06-2013, 11:36 PM   #5
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Hey Guys. Thanks for your help! Heres an update to this thread. It seems like my ambition/thinking often times is much greater than my free-time or willingness to get a project done. At least I'm moving faster than the last one! Just finished the grout tonight and replaced the shutoff valves.

I got all the tile and durock out. I ended up buying a longer prybar. Its just like the Stanly Wonderbar, but is longer, and made by eastwing. That got the durock up pretty easily.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...1#.UTggsld318E

Turns out.. Mr. Carpenter put the durock down with no thinset nor even liquid nails underneath. Then he used half backerboard screws, and half 10 penny finish nails to secure it..

The flange had me thinkering about it for awhile, and I finally tried to use my internal pipe cutter on it. My cordless Dewalt was too slow.. but in messing with that.. and before i went to get the 1/2" corded.. I thought i saw the flange move.. so i gave it a whack with a hammer and it fell right off.. turns out Mr. Carpenter didn't use any purple primer, and had barely any glue on the pipe at all.. thank god that didn't leak poo

So I got that squared away and glued in a new coupling. I will glue the flange in nice and flat to the tile in the next day or two.

Once I got that all cleaned out, looked like 1/2" durock would be alittle low actually. But.. once i got everything installed, and with the varying amounts of thinset to get everything as flat as i could.. turns out im within 1/16" of matching right up with the adjacent flooring!

So I have to admit.. you guys have been telling me to avoid the Orange and the Blue for probably years at this point.. and I thought the extra cost wasn't worth it to go to a local place.. but... I WAS WRONG. The thin set I used, I could just feel that it was a better quality.. it spread around like it was butter, and it stuck the tiles down good! The tiles I used were just about perfect in terms of straightness/flatness, they almost seemed to line themselves up, and even seemed like they cut better than the other ones, and I didn't even crack one cut. The grout was even easier to use than the urethane stuff. I read a bad thread on the power grout.. and I know mine isn't cured yet.. but so far.. im liking it..

So I'm much prouder of this floor than I am the other one. The better quality materials, and my increased level of craftsmanship probably both attributed to that.

Oh.. CX.. as far as the pattern.. the "Boss" wanted the 50%, its becoming pretty popular in business around here it seems.. even informed of the possible consequences.. but shes happy with it now..

I have some minor lipage.. but its no more than 1/16th" on only 1 or two tiles on one side. I did play a lot with the thin set thickness to try to get them as close as I could. I probably shoulda did some more prep to get them to level out a bit more.. but from what I'm reading.. 1/16th isnt quite so bad.

And Kudos to my local tile store guy for helping picking out the grout color.. in person.. it sort of blends into the tile, which the Misses really likes.

Since you guys like to answer questions...

#1 Whats the best way that you guys clean out your buckets? I have three I probably have to throw away since it was just too cold and late for me to mess with a free pickle bucket at that point. I guess in the summer its not too bad to spray em out with a high pressure hose. But I know you guys would go broke if you threw away all your buckets. You just make the hourly guys do it and they get cold/wet??

Heres some pickturs.. I'll post another one or two when i get the rest of the stuff back in the bathroom. And for the next job (most likely the backsplash in the new kitchen.. I'll be buying a quality saw...

Durock (I used some leftover sheets from the other bathroom where I cut the hole wrong 4 times.. so that explains the patch job)

Final Tiles being laid

And grout on the final buff.
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Unread 03-07-2013, 07:49 AM   #6
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Eddie,
Nice job! - I got here a little late to the dance. I hope you Back-Buttered that tile? In your first post you can see that the tile that was down was not back-buttered by the voids on the backs. IF YOU DIDN'T back-butter the tile don't worry. You should be fine, BUT, next time with that size ( for confidence sake ) BB the tile.
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Unread 03-07-2013, 09:52 AM   #7
coldsolderjoint
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Hi Phil,

I backbuttered every piece in the perpendicular direction of the trowel lines on the floor. I picked up one or two (not easy) and the thinset was evenly smushed across the whole tile. My curiosity got to me, and I tried one without backbutter, and it was just the trowel lines (like the old tile) so I knew I was right to BB.

I actually ended up using more mortar than I thought. I used it under the Durock, and I had to get the right amount down under the tiles and backbutter to avoid squishing way too much out.. and that took awhile. Had to go get another bag of thinset. So now I have about a cup and a half of grey left, and about half a 25# bag of white left (tile store didnt have any 25# grey in stock).
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Unread 03-24-2013, 03:05 AM   #8
coldsolderjoint
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Hey.. you guys like picturs right??

I still have to find a way to move that light fixture over.. (wall paper before realizing that your knee would hit the vanity).

And some very minor clean up.. but I'm calling this one done!

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Unread 03-24-2013, 03:08 AM   #9
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Thanks Guys! I'm pretty proud of this floor!
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Unread 03-24-2013, 05:49 AM   #10
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Nice job Eddie.
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