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Unread 04-08-2022, 06:55 PM   #1
tilesetter2000
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pool paver tile pedestals?

So I've been in this game for decades and am 2nd generation. I've done most everything. Cut my teeth in commercial and now am doing custom homes.
I have a contractor that wants me to do a 2000 sq ft pool area in a freeze thaw environment. I've thinsetted pavers in this area (KY) over concrete, I've gone over ditra against their advice and I've used sand. I haven't had any call backs but I've never given an extended warranty due to freeze thaw. I was wondering about pedestals. I did a search here and found pretty much nothing. I've actually priced a couple of pedestal projects and haven't had any takers but I think this next one would go for it but I am wondering why I don't see anything about it on the forum. Do they work? I know virtually nothing about them. Thanks
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Unread 04-09-2022, 06:59 PM   #2
Davy
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Hi Nathan, you might need to explain what you're calling a pedestal project. I've built and installed marble over pedestals for art work and big fancy vases but not sure if that's what you mean.
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Unread 04-09-2022, 07:12 PM   #3
tilesetter2000
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I can appreciate that question but if you've ever used them you would know what I am referring to. https://bisonip.com/company/ take a look at their pavers and pedestal system. Basically the pavers sit on little round plastic pedestals and the pavers are not thinsetted or grouted the water runs over them and then drains onto sloped underlayment. From what I see there would be no freeze thaw issues. But these have been out for quite a while and I haven't seen much feed back so maybe there is a down side I'm not hearing about. I heard that Schluter was using something similar in Europe but may have been a rumor.
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Unread 04-09-2022, 07:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan
...but if you've ever used them you would know what I am referring to.
But we haven't, and we didn't, Nathan. I think that was Davy's point.

In your link I see only the use of pre-fabricated wood decking sections. No reference to ceramic tile that I saw. Are there special tiles made for use over these same pedestals?
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Unread 04-10-2022, 05:38 AM   #5
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For the ol' geezer community
https://tiletechpavers.com/resources...destal-system/

I've seen a lot of it out west in the Cali area. They surely work out there. No grout so water passes thru to the deck below. Not sure why it wouldn't work in freeze areas.
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Unread 04-10-2022, 06:48 AM   #6
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Thanks, Nathan. Makes more sense now. I have set a lot of tile in California but not recently. That sounds interesting.
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Unread 04-10-2022, 09:06 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Jerry
For the ol' geezer community
Hey! I resemble that.

I see 2cm porcelain listed as one of the available coverings there. Don't think I've ever seen porcelain that thick.

Interesting concept, for sure. As to the freeze/thaw consideration, looks like that would mostly need to be taken care of in the primary roofing system, but I can also see it being a problem in the seriously cold climates. And even in the DFW Texas area I've seen ice storms that would likely overwhelm that system and result in........what? Would it actually damage the system, or just displace things temporarily?
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Unread 04-10-2022, 07:36 PM   #8
Tool Guy - Kg
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I’ve never heard of anyone on the forum or in my network to install one of these systems.

I first saw one of these systems several years ago at Coverings. It looked to have huge potential for commercial general contractors or as a subcontractor…neither of which are me, so I never explored it further.

I’ve only ever thought about this system in rooftop applications with a sloped rubber liner as the waterproofing. I guess I never thought about overwhelming the system in a perfect winter storm/freeze-thaw because the pavers are only held down by gravity.

I’ve never thought about using this on a pool installation. This is a relatively thick installation with a big air gap under it. How would you cover the edge at the pool?
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Unread 04-11-2022, 12:47 PM   #9
tilemanct
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What's the purpose of the pedestals? Clearance to run wiring and pipes. Those pedestals aren't cheap. Depending on size you will need support at all 4 corners and center of paver.
The bigger problem is your KY clay soil. The work to prep the area with French drains and compacted stone is going to cost a bit of $$$ Those pedestals usually go on top of a concrete slab or wood subfloor. Don't know about compacted stone. They might make a large structural base for each pedestal to spread out the weight over the stone.
They come from the computer floor industry for massive offices where wiring and cat cables need to be run for speed and efficiency.
When it's all said and done good base and a super reinforced concrete slab would probably be the same price.
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Unread 04-11-2022, 04:32 PM   #10
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
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The pedestal systems have been around for years but they seem to recently have caught on. I heard some standards talk about them at Coverings and saw that Ardex has a pedestal system now. Might be other companies too.
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Unread 04-11-2022, 04:53 PM   #11
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I would be concerned about changing planes and pitching in different directions around a pool deck with these systems. They lend themselves to being flat, if you are only pitching one way it’s simple enough. My experience is with a similar system on a roof 30 years ago so take that for what it is.
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Unread 04-11-2022, 05:31 PM   #12
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Pedestal systems have been in use for decades on exterior terraces of commercial buildings and large above grade pool decks at hotels . Typically, the concrete slab under the area to be paved is sloped to drain and waterproofed with Bituthene or a similar product and covered with a protection board. The pavers are placed on adjustable pedestals sitting on the protection board.
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Unread 04-11-2022, 08:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tilemanct
What's the purpose of the pedestals?
The application I saw advertised was to make outdoor living space on a sloping high rise rooftop that would otherwise be an unusable. Yes, the pedestals are meant to go at each and every corner of the tiles with each pedestal sharing 4 corners. The tiles I saw were all at least 2’ x 2’. The pedestals are two-part pieces that spin like an old fashioned round work stool to adjust within a certain height range. Long before the install, you need to run a laser level on the rooftop (or wherever) to determine the heights at strategic locations…then a map is produced from the manufacturer to call out which pedestals go where.
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Unread 04-12-2022, 12:19 PM   #14
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Pedestal systems can be a great option but are very unforgiving, you get 0 grace period.
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