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Unread 10-25-2010, 04:49 PM   #1
pwgsx
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Tub to Shower Renovation

Just started a big project on my master bathroom. So far I removed the brown nasty tile, the mold behind the tile and removed all the mold on the green board and got the tub out this past weekend. The plan is to add a small storage cabinet on the far right, probably only a foot wide and tile in a shower stall. and tile the whole bathroom floor. I have been doing a lot of reading and research and here is what my plan is so feel free to correct anyhting that I may have missed.

After I get the drain plumbed in right, I will pack the hole with sand and add 2-3 inches of cement to cover the gap. I also have a indented part in the back right corner about a inch deep ( I have no idea why) so I will level that off too with some cement. What type should I use?? Next I will repace the clear plastic liner against the yellow insulation and put up some plain drywall or should I use green board?? I will float some cement on the floor to create a slope and then add the thick rubber liner on the floor and up the wall 1 foot. I will use cement board to cover the whole shower area from top to bottom. I will then float more cement to the correct hight and slope and build my front curb the length of the opening as I plan to have a all glass front. By this point I will tile the shower and bathroom floor. Seems simple enough....lol

Here are some pics of what im up against.....
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Unread 10-25-2010, 05:05 PM   #2
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Phillip,

welcome to the forum,

The bad news is your plan needs a bit of tweaking. The good news is you haven't nailed anything together yet and you're in the right spot to get all the correct answers.

From your posting we can see you are headed in the direction of a traditional vinyl liner installation. More on that later. Have you considered a surface applied membrane such as Kerdi or Hyrdoban aka watertite? With either of those systems you'll get a superior end product with less risk of failure IMHO.

If you elect to stay with a vinyl liner (nothing wrong with that, some of my best friends have vinyl liners) you should start by reading the library thread on how to build a liner shower. By the way, no green board anywhere. Cement board (cbu) is good for vinyl liners. The cbu goes on the walls after the liner is in.
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Unread 10-25-2010, 05:26 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply, ill have to look into those products. As far as the cement board, does that go right against the wood studs?? Does any liner or plastic wrap need to be behind it first ( not including the vinyl on the bottom area) ?? I guess im worried that water will leak past the board into the wood.
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Unread 10-25-2010, 05:47 PM   #4
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Phillip,

The answer to that question depends on the waterproofing method you decide on. Until we know, we can't answer.

Grab a cup of coffee, perhaps a slice of banana bread and give the library a thorough reading.
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Unread 10-26-2010, 07:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillip
I guess im worried that water will leak past the board into the wood.
Exactly what you should be worried about, friend. You have lotsa options for waterproofing but gotta pick one. And only one. Kerdi is highly recommended for this kind of custom application, since it can be installed over plain sheetrock. While the Kerdi drain and membrane can be a bit spendy, you save enormously on the simplicity of framing, sheetrock, and your own custom mud base, plus you wind up with a very high quality, leak-proof final product.

Hydroban is a liquid-applied waterproofing which also claims to be rated for sheetrock installation, but I haven't seen that in widespread use, so I can't comment on it. But they sure claim it to be as such.
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Unread 10-26-2010, 09:50 AM   #6
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Maybe im thinking too much into it, but I will have a vinyl floor membrain sheet that comes up the side of the wall about a foot, then the cement board goes up from the floor, covering the bottom vinyl membrane to however tall the tile will go up the wall. Do these products mentioned get applied on top of the cement board which makes it water tight ?? Then you slap up the tile? Looks like I got more reading to do
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Unread 10-26-2010, 09:59 AM   #7
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Phillip,

The simple answer is no. You're mixing 2 types of waterproofing. You only want 1 type. No need for a second as it will cause problems.

Take some time to watch the kerdi video on this link.You'll get a nice easy lesson on the benefits of Kerdi and why its so popular among DIYers. Please note with this system there is NO traditional vinyl liner nor CBU as you described.

Hydroban is a liquid membrane which is painted on the walls and floor to achieve the same waterproofness. They have a nifty video also.

Of course if you have your heart set on a traditional liner you can build one successfully. There are a number of steps, all of which need to be followed specifically, but it can be done. (Kerdi and hydrban are much easier IMHO)
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Unread 10-27-2010, 10:31 AM   #8
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The Hydroban looks like it would be the easiest to work with for sure.

Now im looking at cost between the two. If I do decide to use the hydroban, do you make your slope first on the floor and then seal it up? It seems like you would to prevent water from sitting if you did your slope after the sealed tray was made.

Thanks for all the great info!!
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Unread 10-27-2010, 10:44 AM   #9
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Yes ! You have the concept down perfectly, that is the ideal way to do it. If you use a kerdi drain with the hydroban, the transition to the drain from the cement base is much easier
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Unread 10-27-2010, 10:44 AM   #10
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correct, if you do a search for "diviot" method drain or pan, you should find a nice turotial on how to do a one step pan the professional way.

Or as paul notes, with a kerdi drain will be much easier!
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Unread 10-27-2010, 11:14 AM   #11
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that'd be "divot" for the lesser trained readers (Sorry Jeremy, couldn't resist)
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Unread 10-27-2010, 11:26 AM   #12
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A big advantage to the kerdi drain = it has about 1/2" or wiggle room side to side and up and back. This allows you a fair amount of slack in setting your floor tiles in the shower.
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Unread 10-27-2010, 11:27 AM   #13
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Read through this thread

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=72403

I know it's very long, but will have all the info you need on a liquid membrane waterproof shower. In the begining it is talking about a method that envolves the use of mesh at plane changes and on the floor, however with hydroban you don't need the fabric, so read through and familiarize yourself with it.
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Unread 10-28-2010, 10:53 PM   #14
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ok so here is where I am at now and after much reading........I am putting up the cement board, do I need to go all the way down to the cement floor or should I keep it a inch or so up?? Also, after I build the slope and ready to Hydroban everything, I am somewhat confused, do I need to use that fabric material around the drain divot area and if so what is the purpose of it?? Their web site only mentions using that fabroc material if there is large gaps that need to be filled.
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Unread 10-29-2010, 06:21 AM   #15
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Phillip,

The CBU can go all the way to the floor, or a smidge above. The mud deck will over lap it. Its supposed to and helps contain the cement when you set it.

Hydroban doesn't require fabric. You can add the laticrete fabric if you'd like esp around a non-kerdi drain. If you elect to use the kerdi drain, which I think is better for a few reasons, the transition from the hydroban to the drain flange is superior and no fabric needed.
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