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Unread 09-29-2009, 03:41 PM   #1
rmateyko
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Raising a Floor Using Deck Mud

I need to raise a floor by 2.5 inches. It is approximately 8 foot x 8 foot. it is a concrete floor. I want to use deck mud to do this. Here are my questions:

(1) Should I first apply thinset? If so what type of thinset, modified or plain and does it matter.

(2) Do I apply the thinset using a notched trowel? Or do I just put a constant layer of thinset down?

(3) Do I put the deck mud on wet thinset or wait till it dries?

(4) Do I need to install reinforcing mesh? If so what type?

(5) How do I adhere the reinforcing mesh to the concrete floor?

Thanks ahead of time
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Unread 09-29-2009, 04:10 PM   #2
Trask
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Roman if your bonding to a concrete floor you don't need to add wire. I have done a number of unbonded mud beds over concrete using open mesh wire (2x2 galv. welded wire) and we place the wire in the middle of the pack.( For the same reason you use "dowbees" to hold up your rebar in concrete, wire does little good at the bottom of the mortar)
As far as Bonded mud beds we have used modified and unmodified thinset and even "pure" portland cement to bond mortar beds. usually it's mixed pretty soupy and spread on with a broom or trowel and the mortar bed is placed over the bond coat while it is still wet. Majority of the time we use a modified thinset "burn" it into the concrete with the flat side of the trowel and then comb with a 3/16" v notch or something close to it...Then same as above place the dry pack or deck mud into the thinset while still wet.
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Unread 09-30-2009, 09:26 PM   #3
rmateyko
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Thanks for the reply

Trask, thanks for your quick reply and I will follow your advice. I am not going to use wire mesh. I will use the modified thinset and will burn it in and then put the deck mud on.

regards
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Unread 10-09-2009, 11:23 PM   #4
rmateyko
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Should I add Admix to Mud Bed Floor

Another question for my mud bed raised floor. Should I put admix into the mud for a 64 sq foot floor. I know that the common wisdom for a shower floor is not to use admix with the mud. However, for a large floor one that is 64 sq feet and about 2 inches thick should I add something?

roman
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Unread 10-09-2009, 11:29 PM   #5
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I'd not add anything but water to mine, Roman.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 12:52 PM   #6
rmateyko
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I need to raise a floor by 1 inch using deck mud

I did a little more thinking and realized that I need a minimum of deck mud - 1 inch or less rather then the 2.5 inches. What is the minimum thickness of deck mud to raise a floor that will be approximately 8x8 feet in area using deck mud. I would be using the JB 5:1 mixing ratio.

The substrate is 4 inch concrete laid in 1950.

I will be putting a layer of easy mat on top for insulation, then heating coil, then ditra and then finally 2x2 tile. This is what makes up the other inch approximately and I have a low ceiling which is why deck mud thickness is critical.

Should I be considering admix and/or reinforcing mesh?

Thanks ahead of time.

By the way this is a great forum for weekend reno warriors. You guys have helped me out a lot!
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Unread 10-18-2009, 12:57 PM   #7
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Absolute minimum is 3/4", Roman, and in your case you'd wanna bond that deck mud to the concrete slab with a slurry of thinset mortar or Portland cement.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 05:38 PM   #8
rmateyko
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Removing small variations in a floor

I want to tile a concrete floor that has a slight pitch - less than 1/4 inch per foot. If I try to flatten the floor using leveling compound I will loose to much height at the other end of the room. But there are variations in the floor that are greater the 1/8 inch and will be noticeable unless I flatten them out.

I don't think I can use leveling compound because it will try to level the floor out, which is not what I want. I want the floor to have a consistent surface but retain its pitch. Is there a product that can do it?

I was thinking thinset would work. Or maybe a thicker mixture of leveling compound.

thanks ahead of time.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 05:48 PM   #9
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You could use a vinyl floor patch,or use a Bonsal floor mud,it's rated for 1/4 to 2" i believe,or do like i do and use deck mud for the thick parts and a combo of wet thinset to adhere it and floor mud mixed wetter in the shallow areas,kinda tricky though.Ooops it's all Prospec now....http://www.prospec.com/products/#products
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Unread 10-18-2009, 07:12 PM   #10
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Are these variations on your mud floor? if not why worry, you are going to mud over them.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 07:47 PM   #11
rmateyko
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Raising a Floor Using Deck Mud

Sorry for the confusion these are variations on the concrete floor.

Long story short for other reasons I won't be able to put deck mud down on this floor, instead I will be putting the easy mat, heating coils, ditra and then tile right on top of the concrete that is there. Which is why I now ask the question.

I wish I could have put the deck mud down, then I would have had an approximately even surface instead I have to deal with some variations on the
existing surface.

Based on Davestone's last reply I went looking on the Mapei web site and it looks like they may have a bunch of products that could do the job. There aren't any prospec dealers around here that I know of.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 08:14 PM   #12
Brad Denny
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Hiya Roman,
I gotta ask this question...

Does anyone have a problem with this assembly? You're talkin' 'bout three different manufacturers of materials, not to mention a fourth being the leveler and possible fifth being a thinset. Seems like there would be a way to simplify this without so much crossover. I would attempt it myself, but I don't know which site to research first!
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Unread 11-14-2009, 09:45 PM   #13
rmateyko
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3/16" v notch trowel

I got some really good advice regarding bonding a mortar bed to a concrete floor. I was told to use a 3/16" v notch to burn the bonding thinset in. Would anyone out there know if that is a 3/16" x 5/32" v trowel or something else. I have included an excerpt from that post.

thanks ahead of time.

"As far as Bonded mud beds we have used modified and unmodified thinset and even "pure" portland cement to bond mortar beds. usually it's mixed pretty soupy and spread on with a broom or trowel and the mortar bed is placed over the bond coat while it is still wet. Majority of the time we use a modified thinset "burn" it into the concrete with the flat side of the trowel and then comb with 3/16" v notch or something close to it...Then same as above place the dry pack or deck mud into the thinset while still we .."
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Unread 11-14-2009, 10:39 PM   #14
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Roman, it matters not at all. The consistency of the thinset or pure in this application is such that a broom application is sufficient.

You wanna do a little "burning," I suppose you can, but I've never found it necessary.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 11-15-2009, 11:48 AM   #15
Davy
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I would just put the heat wire on the concrete and mud over it. You can still paint a thinset slurry down with the wires there, just be kinda careful not to yank on the wires. With such a small area, I would paint half the floor with thinset and get it covered with maybe a half inch or so of mud, then do the other half. That way you will have it all covered and not sliding around in a mess of thinset. After it is mudded and dried out some, I would put a membrane over the top and tile it. I don't see a need for the insulation layer (easy mat).
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