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Unread 01-30-2003, 10:56 AM   #1
Paul D.
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Metal Roofing

Any comments or heads-up on putting in a metal roof? I am going with a snap-lock design, which looks like standing-seam, but is doesn't take special tools to install.

Going in over 1/2" plywood decking and 15-lb roofing paper. I am installing a ridge-vent, and the typical drip edge details. Pretty good price, I think, at $78/square plus trim pieces. 24-gauge galv-alum material. Nuthin' fancy, no hips or changes in pitch on this one.

Thanks for any comments.
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Unread 01-30-2003, 05:48 PM   #2
John Bridge
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Hi Paul,

I Bet CX knows about metal roofs. I see them all the time out on the "ranches" I work on, but I don't know much about them. Nail it down and call it good, eh?
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Unread 01-30-2003, 07:43 PM   #3
cx
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Yep, he know a little, anyway.

I've never seen nor used the stuff, Paul. I've seen it advertised and thought I might wanna give it a look, though.

I called my metal roof guy this afternoon and he, being a standing seam roof seller, didn't have a lot of good to say about it. He did say that if you get the "industrial grade" it might be "pretty good".

He thought most of those roofs required a gasket of some sort in the seam, which (and I'd hafta agree here) would make them not as good as a double-crimped standing seam. But that seemed to be his major complaint about it - that and the fact that yes, I could install it myself. Also a negative from his perspective is that he can't roll the panels on site because it would require a different machine than he has. Also not a negative for you or me on accounta I have to order my Tennessee Vee crimp pre-made anyway.

Galvalume is good stuff, I use it almost exclusively. I wonder at the 24 gauge, though. The two suppliers I use say it only comes in 26 gauge, which they allege is closer to 25 gauge. I think when I first started using it, it was advertised as 24 gauge, but I've slept since then. In any case, it's good roofing material.

As for not needing special tools, the only thing I think you eliminate it the power "seamer", which is good because they are expensive as hell and break alla time. They do, however, make an unbeatable, permanent, absolutely waterproof, good looking seam. Roofer thinks the snap-together kind don't look as good. I don't know.

You will still need to do all the hand cutting and bending required at the top and bottom of the panels and at the gable ends. Some tools required there and if you're not in the sheet metal bidness, they could be considered "special tools". Using them also requires a little skill, but you won't have any trouble with that once you see it done.

One consideration with Galvalume is that you cannot solder it. It is good to have your supplier make any necessary flashings from the same material. I make any necessary penetrations in the roof after laying the roofing to that point so I can always have the hole someplace other than the seam (no gettee leaks, eh?) and rivet the flashing to the roofing with stainless pop-rivets after having sealed the joint with NP-1. The "Limestone" color matches very well your roofing.

That price for material (I'm assuming that it comes to your site pre-cut to length) sounds quite acceptable.

I'm sure there will be more questions, most of which I prolly can't answer, so we'll all learn something here, eh?

Is there a web site for the particular roof you're buying?
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Unread 01-31-2003, 08:56 AM   #4
Paul D.
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Thanks for the feedback cx and John. Well, at least we created a short thread on the subject for some reference.

The professional-guarantee-your-roof-for-some-period roofers probably don't fool much with the snap-lock, based on my inquiries, and other folks installing their own will often install the exposed screw kind. But the suppliers here in Austin make their own snap-lock to spec using their rolling machinery. Comes with a 20 year rust through warranty.

They fab the sheets to dimension. Here is a web site that shows the cross-section:

http://www.centraltexasmetalroof.com...osnap100.shtml

And here:

http://www.toolbase.org/tertiary_pri...ocumentID=2147

See the notes on "oil-canning." I was not aware of that before, but I guess it is usual on metal roofs.

The special tools required are some good snips for the gable ends and any eave trimming, and a hand-crimper for the edges. That is the physical part, they say.

All the trim is made from the same material. Fabbed from either 26 and 24 gauge off the roll, the cost is $65 and $70 per square, respectively.

No penetrations in the garage roof. Only the ridge vent on top. Good for me. They sell a high-zoot metallic sealer pookie in a tube for the spots that require it. No problems there.

One thing they brought up as a point of some discussion is whether you should put building paper down underneath metal roofing. I guess it can cause problems if you have leaks. Of course, mine won't, so....
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Unread 02-01-2003, 12:11 AM   #5
Sonnie Layne
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Only thing I can add....

I installed, ummm about 150x18x3 for greenhouse/headwall endwalls. That's galvalume I'm talkin'. You otta use shears, the only place I ever saw failure in the finish was where we used saws to cut the stuff. Heat, apparently, I'm guessing.

Don't know about their crimped product, but I've used the regular in utilitarian situations, edges and ridges sealed with uhhh,,, hm, lemme think... durn... clear stuff that comes in a can, some kinda elastomeric,,, 400% modulus of elasticity. I wanna say ClimaCell, but when I do a search on the internet, I get cooling pads for greenhouses. I used to buy it from Payless Cashways here in TX. I've patched loose rivets in aluminum boats with the stuff... sorry I can't remember the name. It far surpassed silicone, tho', this stuff could be set in damp conditions.

Anyway, that's prob'ly way out of use constraints here. I was just trying to toss something in that may be an alternative to standing seam--- that's a pain. big time.
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Unread 02-01-2003, 12:36 AM   #6
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Yeah, you look at any standing seam roof and you'll see a little waviness, Paul. Much more prominent on the 29 gauge galvanized types. Usually most noticeable when it's new and shiny. When it dulls out a little, it's not so apparent. Most customers either don't notice or don't care, in my experience, but maybe I've just never seen a real bad one. Should see a lot less of it with the heavier gauges.

I always install my metal over red rosin paper. I've seen no commercial installers do the same. That's the way I was taught when I first came down here as the most correct installation. And we put it (paper) down with no fasteners. The object is alleged to be to keep the metal from touching anything that can cause corrosion, such as staples, nails, screws, tin caps, or roofing felt. It's a bit of a pain in the ass to apply, and I can't prove it makes a better roof, but I pewts it on there anyways.
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Unread 02-01-2003, 12:54 AM   #7
Sonnie Layne
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I need to come see that... not that I'd ever likely have an application for it, but just because because. That's no smart-ass remark, I spent a lot of time in the greenhouse biz and if you can tape this stuff together, all the better. Ya know, us farmerz ain't so smart on the hoof.
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Unread 02-03-2003, 01:23 PM   #8
Paul D.
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cx,

Aside from a nail or staple rubbing on the bottom side, how would roofing felt contribute to corrosion?

Attach it without fasterners? Duct tape? Spray glue? I don't get that one. There is a rust through warranty, so I'll probably check with the supplier to see what they on instructions.
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Unread 02-03-2003, 07:10 PM   #9
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I've always thought the problem with the roofing felt had to do with some chemical, probably an acid, but I'm not entirely sure if I was told that or just made it up myownself. I was told to pewt the red paper over it, though.

Again, the roofers I've used don't use the rosin paper (which is advertised to contain no acids, amongst other things), but that doesn't mean much, really. They also don't do a lot of other things right if you don't watch'em every minute.

I've taken off plain galvanized roofing that had been installed over black paper more than ten years earlier and seen no signs of any problem. But that's not old for a metal roof. Lots of old metal roofs were installed over nothing but 1x4 slats and they also looked OK (don't try that over treated wood, though).

When we put on the rosin paper, we just roll it out beside the last sheet of roofing and lay another sheet on top of it to hold it down. Pain in the ass, that, especially when it's windy. Why do I still do that, you might axe? Because.

If you don't pewt no red paper I won't even turn yo wretched ass in to the Roof Ranger. Promise.
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Unread 02-16-2003, 10:20 PM   #10
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You started that metal roof yet, young fella?
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Unread 02-17-2003, 11:51 AM   #11
Paul D.
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"Young fella?" I'll have you know, I am a grandpa!

Thanks for the compliment, though. Making progress...the rain on and off has been bottling me up, but with this gorgeous weather, I finished the trim and decking this past weekend. Need to get the paper on the thing now that the panels are all good and dry. Nothing like decking by yourself in a breeze!

For the record here, 24-gauge Galvalume snap-lock will run be right at $100 per square for materials, including all trim and the ridge-vent.

You'd be proud of my mitered trim corners. I remembered what you said about the cracks being the first thing you noticed on a roof, and was determined not to let that happen. For me, the trick was making the cuts in place with a jigsaw. The accuracy of my Craftsman circular saw leaves something to be desired, especially working overhead. I actually squirted some Gorilla glue on the joints before screwing them together. Good stuff as long as you don't overdo it.

I'll post the name of these SS screws I'm using on the cedar. GK or something. Pretty amazing, compared to old decking screws.

Got myself a new cement board shear yesterday on Ebay for $125. I saw someones post on a saw blade tooth coming off and realized the shear might be worth it after all.

Now that I finished the trim, I just found a friend who had scaffolding to lend me. It will come in handy on the siding for sure.

Over and out....

Last edited by Paul D.; 02-17-2003 at 01:22 PM.
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Unread 03-31-2003, 08:54 AM   #12
Paul D.
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Metal Roofing Reprise

Popeye was a metal roofer. This is a fact.

Polished off the last of the edges yesterday on my garage. This snap-lock roofing is very nice and the panels go on quickly and securely. The edge work is quite time-consuming (for a DIY) and takes a wicked amount of hand work. I can see why many roofing jobs are the "5-ridge" type without the finished edges. As I look around, I have not seen a roof like mine on any houses that dont cost twice as much. And this is my stinkin' garage!

Random unsoliceted advice:

1. Wear sunglasses, unless you are working at night or with colored roofing.

2. Always close the snips before putting back in your tool pouch. One slip and fumble and I've got 6 stitches in my leg.

3. www.met-fab.com has a nice list of of trim details, including diagrams.

4. Beg, borrow, steal or make scaffolding. Ladders don't cut it.

5. Don't chintz on the tools.

6. Rinse the oak pollen off the metal roof before you climb up. Rubber shoes stick to wet metal better than they do to dust and it's a long way down.

7. Use 5/8 OSB decking for this type of roofing. The screws don't bite that well into today's CDX plywood (too many voids), and 1/2 inch is not really thick enough, IMHO.

Later....
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Last edited by Paul D.; 03-31-2003 at 12:44 PM.
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Unread 03-31-2003, 10:22 AM   #13
Sonnie Layne
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good advice, Paul...

when do we get pictures?
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Unread 03-31-2003, 12:46 PM   #14
Paul D.
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You know Sonnie, I have never taken an electronic picture, and I don't own any either.

Have to work on that, but I'm saving for a table saw....

Hey, that reminds me of another post I need to make to woodworking..
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Unread 03-31-2003, 05:06 PM   #15
John Bridge
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Hi Paul,

Real roofers don't use scaffolding.

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