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Unread 09-11-2004, 06:53 PM   #1
davem
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Roofing help.

Day one of Mom's roof was today. After stripping 2 layers, found the 3/8" ply was all delaminating so we ripped it off and replaced with 1/2" osb. Fine and dandy so far. Tomorrow I have to replace some bricks on the chimney that failed right at the flashing line. Please see the pic below and offer any tips on this. My plan is to chisel, chip, grind or whatever the mortar out and fit some new bricks in.

Should the roof flashing get tucked into the joint before I tuck in the mortar? Any tips would be a huge help, I've never done this before.

Also, Mom's house had zero vents on the roof, just a couple of slits on the gable ends. We want to add vents, but the house has zero overhang. The roofing co. sold my brother some drip edge with vent slots in it. It's 6 inches on the roof part, then a 2 inch return where the slots are cut, then a 1 inch vertical down that I guess tucks behind the gutters? The roof is a shallow pitch, so the vents will need to be bent nearly flat with the roof part. I think some air could still get in though. Any tips here would help too.
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Unread 09-11-2004, 07:24 PM   #2
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Yes, the flashing gets tucked into the mortar joints and woven into the shingles to shed the water, this might help.http://www2.cr.nps.gov/tps/roofdown/flashing.htm

As for the venting, the best thing to do, is install a ridge vent, this is done buy cutting away a small portion of the sheathing across the entire peak of the roof and then installing it, they work great and is done almost always on all new roofing jobs today.
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Unread 09-11-2004, 07:36 PM   #3
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Thanks. The vents up high are not a problem, but this drip edge vent is for the low side intake. There are no soffits at all, so this is supposed to allow for intake. Just concerned a little cause I've never seen anything like it. We had to leave two inches of sheathing off at the low edge of the roof so air from those little slots can get into the attic.
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Unread 09-11-2004, 08:01 PM   #4
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Hi Dave, yeah you will need those intake vents in order for the ridge vent to work. I've never seen those before either but looks like they will work pretty good.
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Unread 09-11-2004, 08:25 PM   #5
Davestone
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My dad was a roofer,i agree so far with everyone,you'll need to step flash the chimney, after running a flat piece of flashing with a 2" L bent up and stuck up against chimney around the chimney base,against the high side facing the peak,. Then it's good to run one under the ends of that piece,you'll run the flat side about a foot long on either end and cut the L off at the chimney ends, and run one down either sides of the chimney before step flashing,these L flashings will lay on top of the felt and under the step flashing and shingles ,remember the shingles only protect the felt which is your waterproofing,and when in doubt use some black tar flashing at any place under your metal flashing that looks suspicious,i would surround the chimney base with it,water will find any weakness.We use styrofoam chase channels inside the rafters here to increase updraft to the ridge vent,it's code here. They're shaped like this ~almost,but you probably don't need em for a redo.Shouldn't you cut a strip ot of the facia for the eve vent instead of leaving off the sheathing,if it also acts as a drip edge?Whatever the instructs are,seems odd to me though.
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Unread 09-11-2004, 09:10 PM   #6
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Yep, mostly what everybody said.

What you wanna do, and I think I'm saying the same thing as Davestone here, is to first flash the whole chimney opening as though it were a window in a vertical wall: Flash across the bottom first with an L shaped (the L to match your pitch) piece long enough to extend past the sides 8 or 10 inches. Cut this piece at the chimney corners and bend a couple inches of the vertical back around the chimney sides, and let the horizontal (part laying on the roof) just lay flat; lay more L shaped pieces (90 degree L) along the sides of the chimney, extending at least to the edge of the bottom part laying on the roof and about the same at the top of the chimney. Cut the vertical portion of these like you did with the bottom piece and wrap a couple inches around the corners of the chimney, the bottom ends wrapping over the part of the bottom flashing you bent around the same corners; lay another L shaped piece (acute angled to match pitch) over the ends of the two side pieces, cut the vertical portion to wrap a couple inches around the chimney corners over the portions of the side flashings you wrapped around those corners.

On ready-made flashings (I order them to fit the chimney hole on new construction), all these overlaps are soldered, but with remodel I use pop-rivets and NP-1 caulking. I accept no substitute for NP-1 for this kind of work (any metal on any roof), but there may be equally good products out there not known to me.

Then when you get to roofing, do the step flashings as you go up along the chimney, cutting them to fit and bending a tab at the top to fit into your brick mortar joints with a hand brake, and having them "counter flash" down over the initial flashing. Doesn't take quite as long to do all that as it does to try to 'splain it.

On the vents, I've never used what you have in your picher there, but it appears to be made to do the same thing as the soffit vents we use on a regular basis. I agree with Davestone that it would seem to make more sense to cut away the top of the facia for the vent area, but maybe that bottom tab isn't big enough for you to do that. At any rate, it'll be a hellofa lot better than no soffit vent, especially if you do a ridge vent, which I strongly recommend. They make ridge vent material that you can just nail your shingle caps directly over. Don't know if they're as good a metal ridge cap-type vent, but again, better far than no vent at all.

And if you do use the ridge vent/soffit vent system, you gotta close off those slits in the gable ends. You can't get the chimney effect you want in that design if there are holes other than the soffit.

And them squiggly baffle thingees Davestone is talking about are reall important, too, if you have attic insulation extending out to those eves. You gotta make a space between the insulation and the bottom of the roof decking for the air to flow from the soffit vents.

My opinion; worth price charged. Cause I ain't no roofer.
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Unread 09-11-2004, 11:07 PM   #7
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Yeah I agree with what's been posted already, but the picture I'm getting in my mind of the place is that there's not going to be enough open space with the attic insulation to allow the vent system to work correctly with a ridge vent system, the amount of square ftg of the intake, (soffet vents) has to be equal to the sq ftg of the outake (ridge vent) other wise the system will not work properly, and as Cx said the gable vents will also throw a wrench in the works. Again here I'm maybe picturing this roof wrong, but I'm guessing that you tore out some square or rectangular static vents located up near the peak?

Now while I whole heartedly agree that if it's possible to properly install, the soffet & vented cap is the best system for ventilation on a roof, some bldgs just don't lend their design well to this system. If this is your particular situation here, the next best vent system is a whirlybird or two. Here in the midwest you find a great many roofs that are better suited for this vent system vs the ridge cap and are always preferrable to the regular static vent system. Just my $.02 worth.
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Unread 09-12-2004, 04:28 AM   #8
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Dave, I had a similar situation with little overhang.
Stepson is of course a Pro and thank god for him LOL
We have valleys and a dormer etc with 3 end vents and 4 roof vents.He added a Hurricane vent(or whirlybird) dead center to create a full draw from ends to center.
You'll likely be finished with this project soon enough,but if you post the roof layout,Soffit size and or a picture or 5,perhaps i can get some input from him.I expect he'll stop in sometime today.Of course it may end up being fit for a minnesota Winter which may be overkill in Michigan
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Unread 09-12-2004, 06:57 AM   #9
drew
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Quote:
We had to leave two inches of sheathing off at the low edge of the roof so air from those little slots can get into the attic.
After rereading that last post of yours Dave, I saw the quote above and thought what the f*#%, are you saying the slotted area of is supposed to sit there at the edge of the roof like right on the drip cap and water ain't gonna get in the attic, you're up north in Mi, right, what about ice damming. Or are they gonna shingle right over that and expect that enough air will get in? I'm assuming that is also supposed to act as your drip edge as well as the soffet vent, but sure looks like a problem waiting to happen.

Who makes that stuff? I'd be real interested in taking a look at the manufacturer's site for some tech info on how exactly it is supposed to function w/o causing problems sooner than later. I don't do roofing everyday, but we do a considerable amount of the stuff and to me that system just looks hinkey. Personally I think I'd opt for the whirlybird in conjunction with the gable vents and that roof will be adqeuately vented with a time proven system and probably save ya money as well.

Are you & your brother doing this or have you got a roofer hired?
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Unread 09-12-2004, 07:02 AM   #10
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Well, Davem have ya learned your lesson about askin for help around here?
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Unread 09-12-2004, 07:40 AM   #11
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I'm no roofer, but I'll add that you have to shove/pull the insulation back in order for your vents to work. I've seen them use cardboard things that fit in between the rafter ends to keep the insulation suppressed.
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Unread 09-12-2004, 08:10 AM   #12
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I like the gable vent, turbine idea, except in extremely cold areas if you can't close off the gable to prevent it from making it any colder in the attic.Probably be less problematic for ya.
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Unread 09-12-2004, 04:46 PM   #13
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Dave,

It's hard to tell just from one picture, but in the case that moisture penetration through the crown is causing the damage on the side of the chimney, this is what we have done in the past on our remodels.

After a few days, we came back to strip off the forms on the sides , applied a masonry sealer on the concrete, and added flue caps. I can take a picture of the copper flashing on the chimney (we will be there later in the week) if you would like to see it. The guy that did the flashing work did an exceptional job.
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Unread 09-12-2004, 07:47 PM   #14
davem
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Thanks for the advice everybody, I really appreciate your time.

Survived day 2 of ??? Short on help again, but we got the back half of the house mostly done. I replaced six bricks on the chimney and got the first flashing up. Was working on the step flashing when daylight gave out. We decided to plow ahead with that funky drip edge. Once we crimped it down to match the roof pitch it became strong and I think it will be OK. If not we'll fix it and call it a lesson learned.

The front half of the house is easier and harder. No penetrations or flashing needed, but there is a gable facing the front and some returns (Queen Ann?) on the front corners. Yee ha.

Thanks for the pic Rob, I think I will replace the tapered cap on the chimney. It has a cement base, then tapered mortar on top of that which has a crack in it. It'll probably bust off of there pretty easy. I have a fresh bag of portland I can use to slurry the mud to the cement.
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Unread 09-13-2004, 06:26 AM   #15
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Dont forget the weathershield Dave.
I ran it up 6' and also up the valleys.
Ron stopped by and i asked him about your situation as best i could describe it. He mentioned the hurricane placed up high and centered along with standard roof cap vents placed low on the roof(about 1/3 of the way up from the edge and gable end vents. the purpose of the hurricane is to force draw and get a flow through from all the other vents. He set ours up like this and we have had no problems in 8 years of Minnesota extremes.

Good Luck, i dont envy you,i hate roofing!!
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