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Unread 01-04-2020, 08:06 PM   #1
panhandler
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Moving a drain after mud-liner-mud is set

Hi everyone,
I'm a DIYer who has previously set tile on a couple bathroom floors and one tub surround. I'm currently in the middle of an unplanned master bath remodel, creating a ~3'x6' custom walk-in shower with a 36" trench drain pretty much centered. It's on the main floor with crawlspace underneath, new OSB subfloor. I framed in the bench and curb (2x4s) but since I've never done a shower pan before, I hired a pro for that part. The guy I hired came recommended by two separate local contractor friends of mine.

So he came in and did the job, but the plumber didn't get the placement of the PVC drain line exactly right. We had 37.75" from wall to curb, but the drain ended up being 1.25" from the curb and only 1/2" from the wall studs. Of course that won't work once the backerboard, mortar, tile, and shims to accommodate for the liner are all added. So I called him to come back and move the drain. I was a bit skeptical when he said he could move it a full inch without disturbing the liner at all, but hey he's the pro.

So he came out and moved the trench part without moving the clamping part at all. He cut the downtube of the trench part so that he could set it without the two being aligned. When I asked him if this would cause leakage issues, he assured me that any water that didn't make it down the central drain hole will flow through the weep holes. See attached picture.

He's out of town at the moment but the more I think about it, the less I feel comfortable with his fix. Could the experts in this forum tell me if this is legitimate or if the whole pan needs to be redone? Thanks!

-Kyle
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Unread 01-05-2020, 02:51 AM   #2
Davy
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That's not the way it's designed to work. You'll have a lot more water in your mud bed than you normally would. The shower shouldn't leak doing it his way but the majority of the water is supposed to go straight down the drain, not thru the weep holes. I'd make him fix it right. Now he has the trough cut off so it won't go down into the drain like it should.

When you have a 36 inch trough in a 36 inch shower, the drain has to be perfectly centered. A 30 inch trough would have worked better even though it would be off center a little.
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Unread 01-05-2020, 10:04 AM   #3
panhandler
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Thanks for the quick reply, Davy.
That's basically what I was thinking, too. The reason I'm doing this remodel in the first place is that the original plumbing (both the shower drain and toilet flange) failed and caused catastrophic water damage that forced me to gut the entire room to studs and even sister some floor joists. So I'm being extra cautious as I put it all back together, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't being overdramatic before asking this guy to come back a third time.

So what is the proper way to go about fixing this?
From my understanding, he'll need to:
Chisel the entire pan out and remove the entire liner,
chisel enough of the preslope out to access the subfloor around the drain,
unscrew the drain from the subfloor,
widen the hole in the subfloor and reattach the drain in the proper location,
patch the preslope making sure it drains to the new drain location,
new liner and pan as usual.
Is that what I should be asking him to do?

Thanks again!
-Kyle
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Unread 01-05-2020, 11:37 AM   #4
Davy
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Yes. The shower shouldn't leak as it is but having that much water going into the mud bed could cause other problems.

Is there a reason why he didn't get the riser pipe centered? Hopefully there's not a joist in the way.
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Unread 01-05-2020, 01:11 PM   #5
panhandler
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No there isn't a joist in the way. Since the room was already gutted and the plumbing had to be redone anyway, I decided to rearrange the layout of the room. When the plumber put in the new plumbing for the shower drain he didn't get the location exactly right, and the tile guy just went with where the plumbing was rather than centering it himself.

So fixing this will require redoing the curb as well, correct? Since the liner goes up and over the curb. I'd like to get started setting floor tile before he gets back, but if he's going to have to redo the curb, I'm guessing I should probably hold off.

Thanks again for the advice.
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Unread 01-05-2020, 03:35 PM   #6
Davy
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I wouldn't have expected the tile man to center up the riser pipe/drain but it would have been nice if he would have mentioned it to you, that way you could have called the plumber back.

Like I said earlier, a 30 inch trough would slide over and drop down into the drain like it's supposed to. Then the liner could be left alone. It would be out of center just a little. That might be the way to go if the trough is trashed due to him cutting off the pipe that extends off the bottom.

Are your walls tiled yet?
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Unread 01-05-2020, 06:54 PM   #7
panhandler
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Nope, no tile anywhere yet.

Drain pipe is PVC, so I'm hoping it has enough flex to get it to where it needs to be without getting the plumber involved. If not, I'll probably just use one of those flexible couplers - unless there's a reason not to?

I'm going to do everything I can to avoid switching to a shorter drain. I'm planning on using 12x24 on the shower floor, so I'd really like to keep two consistent square planes rather than four trapezoids.
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Unread 01-05-2020, 07:45 PM   #8
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I agree, a drain going from wall to wall looks and works best.

You were talking about redoing the curb. What stage is it in?
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Unread 01-05-2020, 09:28 PM   #9
panhandler
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Curb was done at the same time as the liner and pan. The liner wraps up the curb, over the top and partway down the outside. Then the mud (and I assume lath) encapsulates that all the way to the backerboard on the floor outside the shower. I really want to avoid patching the liner (especially near the drain), and pulling the whole liner means chipping out all of the mud on top of it, including the entire curb. Is that correct?
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Unread 01-06-2020, 06:52 AM   #10
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Yes. You'd be basically starting over. If you move the drain 1 1/4 inches and then slide the liner over to fit the drain, it probably won't fit the curb very well.

Were pan corners glued in place?
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Unread 01-07-2020, 07:04 PM   #11
panhandler
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Yeah, the liner can't be slid over because then it would be too low on the wall.

I have no idea if the pan corners were glued or not. Why do you ask?

Thanks again for all the advice.
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Unread 01-07-2020, 07:14 PM   #12
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They won't fit in a different position and I doubt the pan will either. A new pan would be needed.

A little more communication is needed with the plumber. Let him know how urgent it is to have the drain perfectly centered. To most plumbers, if it's within an inch, that's perfect.

You might read the "shower construction info" thread in the liberry. Lots of info there.
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Unread 12-08-2020, 05:57 PM   #13
panhandler
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CBU curb with liquid membrane

Hi everyone,

I'm planning to use liquid membrane for waterproofing on my pan, and I'm trying to wrap my head around what that means for the curb. I'm not very experienced with mud, so cement board seems like it'd be easier to get a flat, plumb and straight curb. Is there any reason not to go this route?
I would also consider using a kirb-perfect, even though I'm not installing a pan liner.

Thanks in advance for input.
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Last edited by panhandler; 12-08-2020 at 10:38 PM.
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Unread 12-08-2020, 06:16 PM   #14
jadnashua
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ALthough liquid applied waterproofing products do have a procedure for making a shower, that is not my preference. I much prefer a sheet type waterproofing as it's a lot harder to make a proper system using liquids. It's a lot harder to make the coats as thick as they want them without runs or pinholes. Extra layers is not great, either. Depending on the backer material, you may need a primer coat, then two full-thickness coats with drying time in between each. Carefully read the full instruction set for the material you choose.

You'd want to probably use their reinforcement tape for the joints and changes of plane. FWIW, you want the top of the curb to be sloped in towards the shower, not level.
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Unread 12-08-2020, 06:18 PM   #15
cx
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Welcome back, Kyle.

I trust you have only one master bath and you've changed your tack on the method of constructing your receptor, so I've combined your new thread here. A moderator can give it a more generic title any time you'd like to suggest one.

With a direct bonded waterproofing system it is acceptable to fasten CBU to your wood curb and then cover it with your waterproofing.

I personally do not recommend using liquid-applied membranes for a shower receptor, but it's done by many.

You have no need for a KirbPerfect system with your CBU curb. Actually, as far as I'm concerned no one ever has any need for a KirbPerfect curb, but that's a matter of opinion.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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