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Unread 09-23-2009, 07:17 PM   #1
ssixto
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hi guys,

i had to replace several areas of a bathroom floor due to water damage. the old floor is true 3/4" 1x4 T&G. it's on true 2x8 on 16" centers. one large area 31x80 and a couple of smaller 1 sq. ft. areas were replaced.

the replacement areas are 1/16" and a little more below the level of the old floor.

i was thinking of using lathe with SLC to level everything in preparation for laying tile.

what would you do?
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Unread 09-23-2009, 07:33 PM   #2
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Hi sixto, welcome! All plywood is not what the thickness says it is. Usually it is bout a 1/16" smaller than what they say. What type of tile underlayment are you using?
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Unread 09-23-2009, 07:34 PM   #3
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I just bought some sheets for counter tops and it was shown as 23/32", 1/32 less than full 3/4". Some of the finished expensive hardwood faced stuff was still 3/4".
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Unread 09-24-2009, 03:37 AM   #4
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Welcome to the forum, Sixto.

If your subfloor now consists of partial plywood patches and partial solid dimensional lumber, then...

NO.....lath (not lathe, though that's a very common mistake) and SLC aren't going to make this "tile ready".

You need a continuous layer of plywood (maybe more if you have natural stone). But before we get ahead of ourselves, maybe we should back up a bit and mention something even more basic. That is to quickly check your floor structure by running a few joist specs through this deflecto calculator to understand if it is up to the task of supporting tile. Are you using a man made tile like ceramic or porcelain....or a natural stone?
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Unread 09-24-2009, 07:11 AM   #5
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ssixto,
I know this isn't the best way of doing it, but I had a similar issue last year when replumbing and tiling my bathroom. I had to remove a lot of original T&G (3/4 to 7/8", varying width planks) to run the plumbing to relocate my sink, not to mention repairs due to water damage. My home is about 100 years old and none of the lumber, whether its the studs, joists, or T&G are made to the same dims as the lumber you would purchase today, at least readily available stuff. Thus, I've often found myself getting creative during repairs. Replacing the entire floor was not an option, even though that would have been the best course of action. I replaced the removed sections with 3/4" plywood (really 23/32) and made sure any edges were either supported by blocking or joists). This left a small gap between the T&G and the ply. I filled in the void with a thin coat of thinly mixed thinset before continuing with the flooring install. Self leveling cement would work as well. I'm not recommending this method, but just throwing it out as an idea. It worked well for me, but all homes are different. I would check the spacing/condition of the joists, as they are considerably smaller than mine, first and then go from there. As the others said, a full replacement is probably best. Good luck.
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Unread 09-24-2009, 01:51 PM   #6
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hmmm, no advice, just more questions.

IF i decide to use the SLC then i'll tile directly onto it.

whoever said the continuous layer of plywood was needed didn't explain why.

whoever said lath was a bad idea didn't explain why.

no one came up with a better way of equalizing the levels; which is the essential question.


i really do appreciate the attempts at help. thank you, and if you do post any more, please include more substantiation. i'm here to learn, but am naturally skeptical...
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Unread 09-24-2009, 02:00 PM   #7
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Welcome, Sixto.

It was suggested you determine the makeup of your joist structure because that is a requirement for a tile installation, and code compliance if that is an issue. You must meet a deflection standard of no more than L/360 for ceramic tile.

The second layer of plywood was suggested because no manufacturer of tiling substrate or SLC permits the use of their product over sawn board flooring.

For the lath, see above.

To equalize the level between your patches and existing subfloor I recommend you install your blocking for the patches such that the patch is flush with the surface of the adjacent flooring.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-24-2009, 03:14 PM   #8
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thanks CX for the informative reply.

to continue:

if blocking is not a viable option, and a substrate is necessary, what other methods of eliminating the different levels might be appropriate?

i had hoped to use HB over the floor, but have not been able to understand how to equalize the levels. i had also thought that just adding a bit more thinset in those areas prior to laying the HB might work. a contractor friend even suggested a layer or two of 75# roofing paper to deal with the low spots; but my natural skepticism prevents me from trying that. having used SLC successfully before, i thought it might work in this situation.

also:

is tiling over planks verboten because of the enhanced possibility of cracks?

when would lath and SLC be appropriate?
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Unread 09-24-2009, 04:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixto
is tiling over planks verboten because of the enhanced possibility of cracks?
You don't get a lot of guarantees in the tiling business, Sixto, but if you were to tile directly to that board subfloor I'll personally guarantee your get cracking in the surface.

The problem in the inherent instability of the wood. Moves around far too much with changes in temperature and humidity to allow tile to be set on it successfully.

The same problem eliminates it as a substrate for the installation of SLC, CBU, and all isolation and uncoupling membranes according to their manufacturers.

You'll hear it a lot here, and for good reason: Read and follow the installation instructions for the products you intend to use. You find one you like and they say it's fine to install over what you have, go for it. And please bring it to our attention.

On your smaller patches, I'd likely be comfortable using water putty to fill over the patch before installing my second layer of a minimum of half-inch plywood. On that larger patch, I'd remove it and raise or shim the blocking to which it's attached.

Another option would be to remove all the board subflooring and patches and install a minimum of 3/4" plywood in the entire area. There are CBU manufacturers who will allow the use of their product over that.

Or you can do what you originally planned and take your chances. I wouldn't.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-24-2009, 08:16 PM   #10
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thanks CX, your explanation makes good sense.

now to decide how to deal with the level issue before adding the plywood substrate...
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Unread 09-26-2009, 08:40 AM   #11
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shower kit is here! and a question...

hi guys,

my KK122 shower kit arrived last night. very nice, they even included seals for the shower valve and shower head pipe. very nice indeed.

this shower is going to be a 42" neo-angle into a corner. i had to buy an extra piece of curb so that i could complete the installation. so the curb will be three pieces forming the neo-angle curb.

that raises a question. in all the installation videos they do an alcove shower, and the curb sits between two walls. in my case the curb certainly ends at the walls, but the front part (under the door) is not supported by a walls at it's ends. it will have angle cuts that will butt to the sections perpendicular to the walls.

should i provide some extra mechanical fastening to the floor for the door part of the curb?
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Unread 09-26-2009, 11:25 AM   #12
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What brand shower kit is this? Maybe someone is familiar with it once they see the brand name.

Most pros will make their own curbs and mud the slope, much cheaper to do.
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Unread 09-26-2009, 11:48 AM   #13
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It's a Schluter shower kit with tray / curb.

Like Davy, I mud mine. I'm pretty sure all you have to do is bed it in an unmodified thinset to the bottom and sides. Some pros here use them, and they will be by.
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Unread 09-26-2009, 12:53 PM   #14
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Sixto,

No mechanical fasteners needed.

Cut the appropriate angle. Thinset ends and bottom of curb and press it into position. Let dry overnight.

The kerdi and tile will give it even more support.
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Unread 10-10-2009, 10:10 PM   #15
ssixto
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primer first ?

my S-K shower install is going well, the tile is a bit delayed so the pressure has been low.

should i primer the greenrock above the CBU ??

around the perimeter of the room, the CBU only reaches a height of 36", it's greenrock above to the ceiling.

when the tile finally goes on the walls it'll reach a height of about 41". therefore most of the tile will be on the CBU. the decorative band and bullnose will be on the greenrock. i'm using Versabond throughout this project.

i'm wondering if i should/can primer the walls before putting the tile onto them. or wait until after i've tiled...
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