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Unread 07-11-2009, 09:22 PM   #1
ih8caulk
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Randy's shower project (by JB's own Brannigan) finished with pichers

Since I'm exhausted talking about it, I'm gonna cut/paste a bit here to cut to the quick with how my current situation started........

(EDIT: Ooops, can't put links in post) Well, if you go to photobucket dot com and look under user "redgtxdi", you'll find an album named "shower" and you can see my current setup.

Being a couple weeks gone by now, my heart, mind & pocketbook are leaning more toward just doing a whole new shower. Had a contractor over today & we discussed whole new shower w/ hot mop job, custom tiles, shampoo niche, bench seat, new door, etc. I've since spoke w/ another contractor coming over Monday and he suggested little things like, corner bench instead of full bench to avoid custom-cut glass at the seat, etc. (The kind of things I like to hear because it means he's thinking about more than just the standard-issue install).

I've also been reading to death about other stuff like using a full masonry build-up to make a seat vs. framed lumber due to keeping expansion out of the equation & ultimately better seat.

Then there's the whole kerdi thing. (Yes, I've watched all the videos & ultimately how I landed here).

Suggestions???

Oh, P.S. especially about framed vs frameless glass. Just en-vogue? Better return on investment?? More leak-proof??? You get the idea.

Thanks, greetings & utmost respect to all here, in advance!!!
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Unread 07-11-2009, 10:47 PM   #2
Deckert
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Quote:
Suggestions???
Ok, heres some random stuff:

Given a choice I like a floating corner bench like these: http://www.innoviscorp.com/better-bench.php
http://www.noblecompany.com/Portals/...20lo%20res.pdf

I'm partial to frameless glass. Mostly cosmetic reasons; you can see more of the tile with a frameless set up. I think it looks cleaner, and stays looking cleaner longer. Framed glass has more spots for soap scum/etc to build up. That being said, a properly installed framed glass door can work great too. Sometimes this becomes a question of $$$.

I like bigger niches than you think you will need. Showers end up having a lot of stuff in them. Having a place to store everything out of the way keeps it looking neat and clean. This gets more important the more folks you have sharing the same shower. I like corner shelves too.

Ask around, get referrals/references for your contractor. Find a contractor that knows how to use whatever shower system you want. You want Kerdi? Cool, find someone that builds Kerdi showers. You want Hydroban? Great, find someone that uses it.

$2.00 a ft tile can look great if its layed out and installed well. $25.00 a ft tile looks like crap if its layed out and installed poorly.

Forget glass tile even though it looks groovy in the catalog photo of the shower that never gets used.

Find out if a permit is needed for your project or not.

Use a licensed and insured plumber.
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Unread 07-11-2009, 10:54 PM   #3
TileArt1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckert
$2.00 a ft tile can look great if its layed out and installed well. $25.00 a ft tile looks like crap if its layed out and installed poorly.
That right there is one of the best quotes I've read in a while!

I prefer the frameless as well, although the $$ factor is a bit limiting at times. Floating benches make the shower look "bigger" than having a big monolithic bench in the corner. But the installer was correct, the corner bench does save $$ on the glass.
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Unread 07-11-2009, 11:25 PM   #4
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Ha ha........Hey Deckert, my sister lives in aliso........I'm in So Cal too. Know anybody out in the IE?? (Chino/Ontario) I saw your site & assume it's a little out of your map, but maybe you know folks in my area that you know are good???

Very nice info about the floating corner. I would have NEVER guessed those would hold 400lbs!! (I'm 6'3", 230 so that's good for me)

I'll be curious to see if the 2nd contractor likes Kerdi or not. (He was big on hot-mop) The 1st guy just knew it as "membrane", not Kerdi, but he's really a plumbing GC. Kerdi's site shows their distributors, I might call them & see if they have "recommended" installers. My house is only 13 yrs old & I want this next shower to last 30 years!!!

One thing that surprised me was that he said a new framed glass door (pivot) would be $600 installed and $1500 for frameless. (century door?) It sounded cheap to me, but the framed door quote total was $4,400, so the rest sounded legit. (???)

I agree on the niche too. I think big or multiples are probably in order. I'd be good w/ one, but the wife needs like 52 bottles of stuff to take a shower.....
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Unread 07-11-2009, 11:43 PM   #5
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I'll send you a PM.
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Unread 07-13-2009, 12:17 PM   #6
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Update....

OK, so GC #2 just left. He's actually taking a different approach. He says he's not a fan of tar anymore. Been in biz since 1980 and said he can't find a good hotmop guy these days and therefore has lost faith in it......(well, probably not the technology so much as the people).

Anyway, he says he likes to use a PVC pan (but suggested it built out to whatever size I want) w/ membrane/liner about 1 foot up the walls. (He, too, didn't seem up to speed on kerdi/hydroban).

He said he likes Hardibacker more than anything else which is why he only goes up a foot w/ the liner. He suggested 100% confidence in his style of shower and I definitely threw enough questions at him to keep him going. (He talked about "folding the membrane over" and "no cut pieces/seams whatsoever to eliminate ANY chance of leakage".)

Does he mean that grey stuff I see in rolls at HD/Lowes???

He suggested we can build out the niche as big as I like and also suggested raising the tile height to a full 7-foot. (It's about 6'4" right now). He said he'll quote corner bench or full-bench & see where pricing comes out.

He guesses in the $4K range but will give me a full-quote tonite.

Opinions??? TIA!!!
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Unread 07-13-2009, 12:34 PM   #7
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PVC is that gray stuff you see at the big box stores. Hardibacker on the walls is good, but he needs a moisture barrier behind it. 4-mill poly sheeting is cheap and good for this.

Go to the ceiling with your tiles. I'm 6'-3" and my shower stops at about 6'-6". The painted walls have suffered water damage. The extra tile work won't cost that much.
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Unread 07-13-2009, 01:18 PM   #8
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Ah, thank you very much kind sir!!

So, he'd be laying down the grey stuff, then building a mud bed to create a pan???

And is that confidence inspiring enough to the pros around here??

I will DEFINITELY inquire about a moisture barrier behind the hardibacker. I guess I also didn't realize that Hardibacker is consdiered a CBU!?! I read a couple other posts and I always thought Hardi was just like Wonderboard/Greenboard, but I guess it's better. (?)

And since I forgot this earlier, he asked me what size tiles I wanted on the walls, but I had no clue outside of "a cost-effective size?"

He said either 8" or 12" and 12" would mean less grout probably go that route? Also, I've heard that smaller tiles on the floor is good. Is there a "best" size for the floor??

TIA again so much for everybody's patience in my ignorance!
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Unread 07-13-2009, 08:06 PM   #9
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OK, 2nd bid is in.

$4,600 which includes everything, including the full-size bench (kinda' what I'd hoped for anyway), frameless glass (yes, custom cut for full-size bench), slide-bar shower, custom niche, custom tile work, etc.

This opposed to the $4,400 bid using hot mop and framed glass. Another $900 for frameless which would be $5,300 total. (So about $700 under first bid)

An afterthought I had was trying to save some money doing the demo myself. He said he included $200 for demo so I could do it if I wanted, but for $200 in the overall scheme of things, I think I'll let him do it.

And, yes, he did say he'd use poly under the Hardi as well as a felt underneath the poly. (He said he does too many 2nd story jobs not to be extra careful)

Whadda ya think?
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Unread 07-13-2009, 10:23 PM   #10
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I'll let the locals comment on prices, I just wanted to know why you hate caulk?
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Unread 07-21-2009, 10:25 PM   #11
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And so it begins..............

Couldn't stand it anymore. Had to see what's goin' on back there...



Testing to see if this image comes out ok.

OK, image looks ok. So that's what was underneath. You can follow the link to the folder where all of tonight's images are. I might throw up a few select ones, but I'm hungry. (Skipped dinner to get at 'er)

Went in every direction 'til I found clean. Looks like the water (outside the shower anyway) was isolated to this corner. Will know more soon. Was contemplating rebuilding the current setup. (I could definitely salvage the current door setup, but it didn't do well the first time, why reward it with a 2nd round?) But I think I'm gonna put her to pasture one way or another.

Last edited by ih8caulk; 07-21-2009 at 10:37 PM.
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Unread 07-22-2009, 03:33 PM   #12
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OK, got a few minutes to throw up some more pics......

Start with the original in case nobody went to the photobucket pics........



The shower frame channels I hated so much!!



What the heck was in that hole???



Ooooh....that screw.....well....what's left of it.....(yes, same screw)



Forget man.......WATER is the enemy!!!
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Unread 07-23-2009, 12:16 AM   #13
ih8caulk
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Child labor anyone?? (juuuuuuuuust kidding)



And after an hour or so of raw forearm burn.......



Mastik anyone???



Definitely saw "wonderboard" silkscreened on the board in a couple places. Oh and definitely no poly or ANYTHING behind the CBU.

Went ahead & knocked on the wall into the hallway just to tick the wife off!!

Tomorrow s/b CBU day. The stuff's so full of holes right now it's practically swiss cheese. Probably gonna be a cookie crumb cleanup more than anything else.

Hmmmmm.....must find more children........
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Unread 07-29-2009, 11:22 AM   #14
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Different benches & methods???

So, after researching my eyes silly, I've noticed something recently that I hadn't caught before.

I've read the brick/mortar bench page from JB (nicely done) and also looked at all the other styles, versions, methods, etc. (Amazing how many folks still recommend pressure treated lumber in a framed build).

Then LisaBigler's thread....(yikes).....and you wonder if you even want ANYTHING in your shower, but 4-walls a valve and a head....(heck, maybe not even those cuz they need to come through the wall too!!!!)

Anyway...........noticed a couple interesting things......

#1.) Better Bench says no need to go into studs....400lbs capacity, just use wall anchors, etc. (not that you can't go into studs, just that wall anchors are good enough)

#2.) Noble Bench says......YES, go into studs or you'll never get that sucker to stay on. (Whoaa???)

#3.) Noble also has foam benches?? (My brain thinks that the foam would move enough to eventually crack tile.)

#4.) Framed or mortar. Sounds like the best overall cuz nothing gets drilled, you can do it inside of the membrane (assuming Kerdi, etc.).

Just trying to grasp it being ok to drill holes thru a membrane/hotmop/whatever wall to install a floating bench when a block/mortar bench requires no drilling???

TIA ------- Randy

(P.S. Just thought about it....if this isn't separate enough & want to merge w/ my own project thread, please do. Maybe I'll change the title or something as things change)

Last edited by ih8caulk; 07-29-2009 at 12:47 PM.
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Unread 07-29-2009, 12:37 PM   #15
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There are different methods of accomplishing the same thing. As long as your method satisfies all of the competing requirements, it's good. One of those requirements is "peace of mind." Pick a method that allows you a good night's sleep and move on.
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