Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 05-12-2020, 01:12 PM   #1
chris b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 213
Hall bath complete remodel

So its been a while, about 10 years since I started and completed a master bathroom remodel with a kerdi shower. Still works no leaks! Proud of the work I accomplished thanks to everyone here who participated in my threads.

Same house new bathroom, removing a tub and adding in shower including a complete make over vanity, full wall tile, lights, etc.
The question I have is due to space and layout.(see images) The tub I pulled was narrow and my goal is to increase to gain as much shower space as possible. I can do this by sliding everything down by removing the 52" wide single sink vanity to a smaller 36" wide vanity.

Instead of mud base like i did before, I want to save a little bit of time and purchase a kerdi shower kit with a 38x60 tray and cut down to 34" or 36" width. Sure wish they offered 36" wide tray. Anyway, the curb or not to curb...

My goal is to gain as much shower width as possible while meeting 15” distance between curb edge and C/L of toilet.

I see two options both requiring to move the toilet.
Option 1. Walk in shower no curb. Cut the tray to 36” width(1" each side)
- No room for a ramp, so I will need to score cut and remove approx. 2” slab in the tray area to recess the kerdi shower tray
- This approach saves 4” with no curb
- I might need to move the toilet, maybe use an offset flange.
- A lot of work, but a nicer visual appearance


Option 2. 4” curbed shower. Cut the tray to 34”.
- Need to move toilet about 3-4”
- Bandsaw the curb to 3” to get an extra inch or 2 out of the tray.

I will not be pulling permits, my home, but a home inspector could bring up an issue if we sell down the road. So if the 15” min. measurement was from the toilet C/L to the glass to save a couple of inches, I could live with that.

So I think I figured out both options, looking for input and opinions. Maybe some foresight to something I am not seeing.

thanks in advance...
Attached Images
   
__________________
Chris
chris b is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 05-12-2020, 02:16 PM   #2
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 3,530
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
Welcome back, Chris,

Being a fan of curbless showers I'd be tempted to figure out a way to make that happen but, man, that'll be a lot of work. I don't see how it would be possible to remove "only" 2 inches of the slab. I also don't see how you could get clean, straight cuts along the bottom/sole plates so that a pre-formed pan would drop in right in. I think you'd have to remove that entire section of pan, pour a new one, holding its finished height to 1" below the existing slab, then install a foam pan. You'd need to tie the lowered section into the existing, and ya might was well move the drain to the center while you're at it. Or, lower the finished height more and then do a mud bed, cover it with membrane and over lapping the existing floor.

Regardless of what you do, and IMO - given the confines, I'd eliminate, or at least cut in half, the 8" of empty space at the end of the vanity. While having it there might be more visually appealing it is ultimately useless.

Can you move the entrance door to the left? If so you could then possibly move the vanity to the 6' end wall. Have a much larger vanity, wider shower (with a curb - avoiding a great deal of concrete work), and plenty of room for the toilet.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2020, 05:13 PM   #3
chris b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 213
Dan,

All good points. The 8" will get moved that's the least resistance to a good solution, the Mrs might not agree but my back does! A few extra inches gets me to a 36"+ shower tray and the clearance I need for the toilet. Still need to move the toilet but that's not a big deal in the bigger picture.
Moving the bathroom door is interesting ideas and see the opportunities but affects the areas outside of the bathroom and hallway.

I am still contemplating on taking an inch off the kerdi curb. With tile added it will be pushing 5" in a small bathroom it may look massive but the inch may not matter either. curious now to know if its been done. On my last shower project I just mortared in brick on its edge. That's an option too.
__________________
Chris
chris b is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2020, 06:58 PM   #4
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,122
You could still make a curb out of bricks if you wanted, or use KerdiBoard, should you decide on a curb. Even 2x material if you add either cbu or drywall to it to attach the Kerdi to.

Just make sure that you don't have a post tensioned slab...cutting a cable in it would ruin your day and maybe end it.

It would be dusty, but if you made multiple cuts in the slab at the desired depth, you could have a good chance of cracking them out without going too deep. But, it would somewhat depend on the thickness of the slab as to how stable what was left would be.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2020, 08:09 PM   #5
chris b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 213
scoring concrete

This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD7RXFugbSE and few other got me on the shaving the slab idea. Moving the vanity and removing an inch each side on the kerdi tray will be the better solution in my case.

Looking at kerdi shower tray, the Mrs was set on penny rounds for the shower, small and good grippers for the underside of feet. Doing a little more searching, I gather anything under 2" square could cause problems for the PS foam deck i.e denting. Some have used pebble rock tiles for the floor without any issues atleast from what I have read so far. Thoughts on penny rounds over kerdi tray?...stiletto heels wont be worn in the shower!
__________________
Chris
chris b is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-13-2020, 11:47 AM   #6
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 3,530
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
I'd definitely take an inch off the curb. An inch or two can make a big difference, and like you said a 5" curb in a small ish bath might look out of proportion.

Without knowing what the hall side looks like I was just spit-balling with the door idea. My MBR uses a 36" opening and two 18" doors, so the sweep of each is much smaller.

Might also consider moving the shower valve, or spring for an electronic valve, from the short wall to the long wall so Mrs, Chris doesn't get her heels wet with cold water when turning the shower on.

I dunno about the PR's on a foam tray, they're pretty small. I had to convince myself the slightly smaller than 2X2's I used would be ok.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-13-2020, 01:15 PM   #7
chris b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 213
I like the idea of moving valve to long wall, running pex shouldnt be an issue. Would need to check code for romex and PEX separation, I think its 1".

I used a brick in the MBR for the curb works great and has been ok for us so far. I am leaning toward foregoing the foam curb save some on piece milling the kerdi shower "kit" and using brick.

Thinking back during an home inspection when we sold the home but long story short we stayed put, gave me a strike for a shallow curb. My mud deck was too thick for the brick I used. lesson learned.
__________________
Chris
chris b is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-13-2020, 05:40 PM   #8
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,122
I think that all you 'need' is 2" above the drain.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-17-2020, 11:38 AM   #9
chris b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 213
back filling shower drain Qs

Questions regarding slab back fill. After I add in the P trap and position the drain line for offset Kerdi tray I need to back fill.
1. The hole is about 12" square, is it necessary to add in rebar pins for the size of a hole? I could see pinning would be needed for a larger hole i.e. 18"
2. Gravel file below the p trap, pack leave about 2-3" base add plastic layer then fill with redi mix and screed? If anything don't mound above the slab affecting the kerdi tray from laying flat

thanks!
Attached Images
 
__________________
Chris
chris b is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-17-2020, 02:13 PM   #10
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 91,224
I would use compactable fill in the hole, leaving the full thickness of the existing concrete for your concrete fill.

I dowel all holes such as yours and use rebar across it when practicable.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-17-2020, 09:38 PM   #11
chris b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 213
Thanks CX.
__________________
Chris
chris b is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-22-2020, 09:46 AM   #12
chris b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 213
Hammer arrestors and PEX

At the point to run the lines to the new valve and see the original plumbing(94) had hammer arrestors for cold/hot lines. I read new values reduce speed at which the valve closes eliminate the need for these. PEX tends to help because the movement of the tube. But still read many plumbers use these (terry love forum).
Thinking of not adding them in, just another point of a potential leak. Thoughts from the group here?
Attached Images
 
__________________
Chris
chris b is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-22-2020, 12:25 PM   #13
workhurts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 461
I left 4” to the cabinet and 3.5” to the top. Looks fine to me. Any less would look weird. Any less might look kinda weird. Mind you, mine is floating. Not sure why the 2nd pic is rotated.
Attached Images
  
__________________
Charlie
workhurts is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-22-2020, 02:39 PM   #14
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,122
Only an uninformed plumber would use an air chamber as a water hammer arrestor these days...the water flowing by eventually gets all of the air in it absorbed, and the branch ends up full of water making it useless. IF you need one, use an engineered one.

Depressurizing the line and draining things often doesn't work to recharge those - think finger over the end of a straw, so once that happens, they provide no benefit, and will be constantly holding nearly stagnant water since there's no flow through that branch.

A few shower valves say to install an arrestor, but except for solenoid valves or those that generally shut off rapidly, they aren't needed. The engineered ones either use a piston that can move or have an air bladder in them. They aren't a lifetime thing, so IF you need one, you should provide access to replace one when required.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-23-2020, 11:23 AM   #15
chris b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 213
Charlie, that's about what I have about factored in terms of spacing tolerance

As far as the arrestor, I put in a question to Delta I would be surprised if I hear back but leaning to not add one.
Delta valve R10000-UNBX
__________________
Chris
chris b is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Master & Hall bath remodel Unlisted1429 Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 08-07-2019 09:59 PM
Hall Bath Remodel: Many Questions jmvar Tile Forum/Advice Board 19 03-28-2018 07:45 AM
Bronson B's Hall Bath Remodel BronsonB Tile Forum/Advice Board 30 07-08-2012 04:12 PM
Mark's Hall Bath Remodel Hobbesct Tile Forum/Advice Board 10 10-23-2008 06:32 PM
Hall Bath Remodel DYImikeinKY Tile Forum/Advice Board 22 03-03-2008 06:38 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:59 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC