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Unread 10-19-2009, 09:33 PM   #46
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Unread 10-19-2009, 09:47 PM   #47
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Real Porcelain

Ingeborg,

Great thread I was reading through this and it was all very interesting! I now know what real porcelain is, my Godfather has 2 pieces he got when he was in the Navy back in 1948 while he was overseas, they are amazing though they are not taller than him! They are only about 10" high but the detail is astounding.

I think Randy looked a little too far into his tiles, ceramic or porcelain!

For the average consumer, we go out and pick a tile we like and buy it. It is usually the cosmetics of it like in most things that lead people to buy a tile for they're project. Now I am saying average. I do think they're is always gonna be deception in advertising when it comes to retail, like "our product is the best" who wouldn't say that when they are trying to make a commission. So Randy if your still not sure which to get, get the one you like the most, the one that appeals to you. From the tilesetter standpoint what is more important to us to convey to the customer is how it is installed. When installed correctly, like the correct subfloor and the proper deflection most tiles are never gonna crack or have issues. Most failures occur from something that was done incorrectly before the tile was even installed though there can be other issues like lack of coverage.

So it is interesting to know this about porcelain but I think for the average consumer more than they need to know. They need to spend more time on the installation, or getting someone who is qualified to install it correctly!

Again great thread and information here. Just giving the view from a tilesetter standpoint who has done a lot of installations over the last 10 years and say what I do because of my experiences. All my customers have gone and picked out they're tile because it was what they wanted or it matched the colors in the kitchen Again it is nice to know all this about the industry of ceramic vs. porcelain and how is can be misrepresented
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Unread 10-20-2009, 12:08 AM   #48
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Actually, mine is quite done!! (Selection, shower, floor & all)

FWIW, I ended up with a porcelain tile from Arizona Tile that was made in Italy (yes, I think that matters) and was seriously twice as thick as the Dal "ceramic" tile. (Though if I do bathroom #2, I might still try that Dal Tile just for giggles.

If I had to park a car on one of the two? Ya, I'd pick the double-thick, Italian porcelain every day of the week and twice on Sunday....but that's just me.

Last page of my thread is here....

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...t=75321&page=3
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Unread 10-20-2009, 05:34 AM   #49
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glad to hear you gotter done Randy!

Randy glad to hear you were able to figure it all out and you can park a car in your bathroom now, are you talking about that new car I saw couple weeks ago, the cube! Cute little car. Seriously though I am glad you didn't burn down anything and you arrived at a flooring material you were happy with, but here again, you read way more into porcelain than 99% of the consumers did, but nothing wrong with that. Being thicker does not always mean its stronger but if your talking about true porcelain, I guess thicker is better.

but here again is it true porcelain..... they told you it was...lol

Randy glad you got and it done and your happy, thats the bottom line! And if you can use it as a parking garage more power to you!

Just looked at the thread with your finished shower and bathroom floor, great job, looks nice, two niches, WOW, the bigger one of the two, heck
you could put a small car in that!
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Unread 10-20-2009, 01:45 PM   #50
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Jon,

You're absolutely right, people should pick out what they like.

Randy i think is a very expressive person - I mean anyone that threatens to burn the shower down is in my book a real character. The kind of guy you want to talk with at a dull cocktail party. I am glad it all turned out so well for him. Maybe it's time for him to start on the kitchen
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Unread 10-20-2009, 04:28 PM   #51
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Ingeborg,

Yes I see that in Randy, a real character He really did a great job on that shower and bathroom! Some people do tend to study things more when making a purchase and thats okay, the bottom line is to be happy with what you got and its something you like and don't have that "I wish I woulda!"

Thanks for starting that thread, I really enjoyed reading through the whole thing last night, its always nice to learn new things and learn from a different perspective.
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Unread 10-22-2009, 09:17 PM   #52
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Thanks gang!! And don't forget.........that's BRANNIGAN'S work!!! (I only instigated the mayhem!!)


Here's one for cx cuz while they did come in a box, I can't find a damn thing on these boxes saying anything more than the basics.....
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Unread 10-23-2009, 06:43 PM   #53
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Randy,

Maybe you have to parley Italiano to comprendo eh!
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Unread 10-23-2009, 06:47 PM   #54
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I've said many times, Randy, that if the box has no mention of ANSI or A137.1 or similar information about compliance with known standards, what's in the box is what's in the box. And that's all we know.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-23-2009, 06:56 PM   #55
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CX,

Could you perhaps go into more detail for those of us who are not pros or lead us to a link where we can get more information. What exactly other than what's in the box do you get when it has the ANSI rating.

I know my Dahl tiles both procelain and stoneware (still have the boxes in the garage) do not have any visible labeling. I know the stoneware tiles were not exactly the same in dimention - slightly off but really, what does it all mean.
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Unread 10-23-2009, 07:06 PM   #56
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If it says on the packaging that the tiles meet the standards of ANSI A137.1, Ingeborg, you are assured they have (or samples of that tile have) passed the necessary testing to qualify as the type of tile claimed on the packaging.

Lots of testing from visual inspection to sizing requirements to breaking strength and more is done with the different types of tiles and they must meet different requirements as specified in the standards.

There may be tiles out there that are equally good, but don't have the assurance of having been tested to current industry standards. You have no assurance of that unless you're willing to test them yourself.

There may be tiles out there that do not meet some or any of the requirements of the current standards. But you don't know that, either. Well, perhaps until you try to use them in your particular application.

The difference is in knowing or not knowing, not necessarily in the quality of the tile.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-23-2009, 07:26 PM   #57
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CX

I guess then it is sort of like the UL Label of the tile industry.
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Unread 10-23-2009, 07:32 PM   #58
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and this is kinda' like the UL listing for porcelain:


http://www.tileusa.com/images/PTCA_Brochure_Final.pdf
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Unread 10-23-2009, 07:34 PM   #59
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Not really. The Underwriters Laboratory "seal," as I understand it, certifies nothing but the safety (alleged safety) of the product tested, not the performance or suitability for use as advertised.

ANSI A137.1 won't tell you the tile is safe, but will tell you that it will perform to published standards.

Pretty different animals to my thinking.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-23-2009, 08:03 PM   #60
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The high quality of Ceramica
Sant'Agostino products is
guaranteed by the UNI-
Certiquality and KEYMARK
marks, certifying the quality of
products by means of total
compliance with the strict
parameters of UNI EN 14411
standards for ceramic tiles,
while CCC marking certifies
compliance to Chinese
standards for imported
products. The acquisition of
these marks of product quality
is the outcome of company
audits to verify total
compliance with procedures
for controlling the production
process and the contemporary
passing of quality controls on
products carried out by
accredited laboratories.
(See pages 440, 442, 444, 446).

That's what I was able to pull from the website. Interestingly, it's a discontinued tile for Arizona Tile here in the states, but still in the Sant Agostino '09 lineup.

Catalog info here.....

http://www.ceramicasantagostino.it/m...ca/Etrusca.pdf

Specs (some repeated) here....

http://www.ceramicasantagostino.it/m...TRUSCA_cap.pdf

Looks like most of the specs are in a european EN ISO's 1545 - xx
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