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Unread 01-20-2023, 12:54 PM   #1
DLap67
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Curbless Shower Pan Design Help

Planning a remodel of the master bath and considering a curbless entry.

My thought is to recess the 3/4" subfloor using the eBBe system as there are engineered floor jooist under; will not be doing the tile work. :-)

Question is if the 3/4" will be enough drop for the pan to be created in a shower that will be approx 78"x40" without needing to build up the height of the main floor? Want to avoid a step from the bedroom [carpeted] to the master bath.
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Unread 01-20-2023, 01:59 PM   #2
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what way is it running to the entry? Where is the drain located? you need 1/4"pf to drain. What drain are you using.
My guess is NO, 3/4" will not be enough.
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Unread 01-20-2023, 02:09 PM   #3
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I know Ebbe makes shower drains and shower head / valve systems. Is that what you mean by "Ebbe system"? I'm wondering if they are now making a pan liner / waterproofing system that I'm not aware of. Anyway, what type of shower floor waterproofing do you plan to use? Are you thinking about a linear drain or just a regular drain in the center?

A surface type membrane like Schluter's Kerdi makes for a thinner floor since only one mudbed is needed. The traditional pan liner needs two.

Something else that will buy you a little more height is a speed bump in the doorway.

Edit; Eric beat me to the punch, same thing he said.
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Unread 01-20-2023, 07:44 PM   #4
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Sorry for the confustion. Here is a link to what I was referring to as the eBBe system for lowering the subfloot: https://ebbe-america.com/product/e11...or-recess-kit/

My intent is to have a traditional drain installed in the middle of the shower with entry on one corner for the long side furthest from the shower heads.
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Unread 01-20-2023, 08:37 PM   #5
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Welcome back, Dean.

Short answer: No. You'll need a full inch of perimeter height above the top of your drain to achieve the minimum required slope that Eric outlined above. I suppose a fella could rip down his 2x4s and still use that Ebbe kit you linked, but I don't know for sure that would work. But, then, I don't know that that drop kit works at all, truth be known.

Davy: Looks like Ebbe makes more stuff than just drains, eh?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-20-2023, 08:59 PM   #6
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Personally, I'd look into Rapid Recess, first and foremost. They say their bracket kit is for 4x6 showers. I don't know if there are ways of stretching that, or not.

However, if you're willing to put a bench at one end of the shower then you could fit within their sizing recommendations.
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Unread 01-24-2023, 06:38 PM   #7
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Thanks for all the help guys, looks like we would be right on the edge of making this work, so on to plan B!

What are the guidelines for minimum curb height that does not become a trip hazzard? Would still like to make this shower as 'sleek' as possible and avoid the big step in over a capped curb. Thanks!
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Unread 01-24-2023, 06:57 PM   #8
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Plumbing code requires that the top of your curb be a minimum of 2 inches above the top of your shower drain. Ceramic tile industry standards require that the top of your curb be a minimum of 2 inches above the shower floor. The first is a legal requirement, the second is a recommendation.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-24-2023, 07:27 PM   #9
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Dean, FWIW I've had this conversation with many clients about curbless showers. Often in a retrofit situation, it's a significant expense that comes with some baggage like shower mat placement and door swing puzzles.

I suppose any curb is a trip hazard, but they don't have to be huge. The attached photo shows what became my primary fare. 3 1/2" wide top cap, usually about 3 1/2" high raw curb made with 2" Kerdi Board.

Even though curbless is a current trend, it's not always cost effective or necessary.
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Unread 01-24-2023, 07:32 PM   #10
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Good looking shower, Peter.
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Unread 01-25-2023, 08:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy
Good looking shower, Peter.
Indeed it is. Really well executed.
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Unread 01-29-2023, 08:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cx
Ceramic tile industry standards require that the top of your curb be a minimum of 2 inches above the shower floor.
Do you have a source for this? I'm not challenging it but I've looked for this very thing and haven't seen it in writing. I heard that it was listed in one on the plumbing books.
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Unread 01-29-2023, 10:00 AM   #13
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Challenging is fine, James. If I can't back it up, I shouldn't be saying in on here as though it were fact.

One place I know it appears is ANSI A108.1A, 2.3 Mortar and special requirements for shower receptors, subparagraph 2.3.7 High point of floor and pitch toward drain: The high Point to the floor shall be not less than 2 in. or more than 9 in. below the top of the finished dam....

It may appear elsewhere, too, but you know how difficult it is to research anything in that document. The section concerns the wet set method, but that's what they presume you to be using if your creating a traditional mud/liner/mud receptor. Unrealistically presuming these days, I think. But I don't think the method of bonding the tiles, nor even the method of waterproofing, should make any difference in that requirement. Especially considering that the section was most recently revised in 2017 according to my 2019 version.

I could, of course, be wrong about that, eh?
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Unread 01-29-2023, 10:01 AM   #14
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I actually found that requirement in the building codes here in Fairfax County, Va when I was researching curbless showers. While there was nothing about curbless showers, the code said something like "...when (emphasis is mine) a curb is used it shall be 2" above the drain grate..."
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Unread 01-29-2023, 10:04 AM   #15
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Not the same requirement James is questioning, Dan. He's asking for a reference to the tile industry requirement that the top of the curb be a minimum of 2" above the shower floor, not above the drain. This is not a code requirement.
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