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Unread 07-18-2019, 08:07 PM   #1
Daimbert
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Advise before start of project....which water proofing system?

Hello everyone,

I have been trolling this board for the last few weeks and have learned a lot. I have decided to do my own bathroom reno but I am stumped on what materials to use.

Here is the project timeline.

1. Full gut...including subfloor
2. Plum and level floor and walls as best I can.
3. Install new 3/4 plywood subfloor.
4. Rewire electrical and redo the plumbing so vent stack is in a new area.
5. Install 1/2" purple board to the ceiling and walls.

This is as far as I have gone. The wife already has tile in mind but I can't decide which waterproofing system I want to use or what shower pan system to use. I am leaning toward both the Hydro ban board and the Schluter system plus a KRBS linear shower base or Schluters own.

This all being said, the only products I can find easily is both Schluter and USG foam board. I can order Hydro ban board or go board for that matter, online fairly cheaply though. The main reason I want to use the Hydro ban board is its ease of installation (go board is similar). No washers are needed and all you need to protect the seams and screws is their adhesive/sealer. Another reason is that it ends up being about a hundred dollars cheaper even ordering online. Is this an advantage or not really? Is USG foam board comparable to both Kerdi and Hydro ban? Would I be really saving myself that much more time by using Hydro ban?

As for the shower pan. My wife and I were honestly first leaning towards those new Kohler Cast Iron just for ease of maintenance but it has two main drawbacks: Cost and the freaking thing is a beast weighing in at around 200 pounds.

This lead me to research foam shower pans. I really like the linear shower drain look and feel it can make the tiling easier in the end. Schluter makes one but so does KBRS. Their both about the same but KBRS includes the actual drain and cover. The KBRS also sells Go board with screws and adhesive for very reasonable price compared to the other two.

So what do you think all? Go with Schluter since its easy for me to get or buy hydro ban board/go board online. Which linear shower pan is worth it?

Thank you for reading my rambling.
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Unread 07-18-2019, 08:43 PM   #2
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Welcome to the forum, John.

That's a Ford/Chevy question. You'll get different answers depending on who you ask.

Schluter makes some really good products, and they're hard to beat. For easy of installation, the foam boards are best, but they also cost more. So if time is a factor more than cost, go with the Schluter foam board. If cost is more of a factor, you might want to consider their membrane over sheetrock. (Incidentally, you would install their membrane over plain, white sheetrock. None of those fancy colored ones.)

Hereabouts, we're generally bigger fans of a mud bed instead of a foam tray. If you have a space that a tray fits perfectly, with the drain in the proper location, they make things a little easier. But a bunch of rookies have made their own shower mud beds just by reading and learning on this site. The mud does take more work, and a bit more time, but it'll conform to any size, shape, and drain location. And it also doesn't care how flat your floor is underneath.

The foam trays are faster, and easier, but they sometimes have to be cut to fit the space for which they're intended, or sometimes mud added to make up for a tray that is too small. When either of those happens, the perimeter is no longer level. That may not be so much of an issue with a linear drain, just depends.

But they're also easy to dent during the construction phase, and they cost quite a bit more than the cheap materials used to make a mud bed. Also, the floor has to be perfectly flat and level, or the pitch of the tray will be thrown off. Their may also be limitations to the tile size on some foam trays. The trays are usually set at a 1/4" per running foot of slope, and sometimes that may not be quite enough.

One thing I would advise, is that you pick a system and stay with it for all parts of your shower. Occasionally we have a visitor that will mix and match products from different manufacturers. Sometimes they work, but often they don't. Then time and money has been wasted, and some or all of their work has to be demolished in order to rebuild a working shower.

Thanks for reading my rambling.
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Unread 07-25-2019, 06:58 PM   #3
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Is a tile laser square worth it?

Newbie Diyer here,

I am getting ready tile in my bathroom Reno some time next week. This is the very first time I am gonna attempt tiling and I am a little nervous. I plan to put ditra as my under layment I will be installing faux wood plank ceramic tile. My house was built during the 50’s and nothing’s square I currently own a Bosch GL 100 and plan to use it to help me with the shower and wall tiling. Can I use the same for the floor or do I need a separate laser square or should I just find the center of the room and use a snap line. I’m basically will be alone so that’s why I was considering the laser.

For the shower walls, should I just worry about getting the bottom tiles level, let it dry overnight then the next day continue without the laser or should I just keep tasing the laser as a reference? What process should I go by for the floors?

Thanks for the advice!

John
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Unread 07-25-2019, 08:03 PM   #4
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John, let's keep all questions related to this project on this thread so that questions and answers aren't duplicated, and the history is in one place.

How big of a floor space do you have? For something under a 100 square feet, I would just use chalk lines. Hardly worth the expense of a laser just for that floor.

Going over Ditra, I usually pre-fill the cavities with mortar and let it dry overnight. The chalk lines will stay visible that way. If you just snap the lines over the mat, they come up very easily.

On shower walls, I take a little extra time to get the bottom row level. It may require propping up tiles with spacers, or cutting tile that are a bit too big, just whichever it takes to get that first row level.

Then I continue on immediately, checking every row to verify I'm staying level. Many tile aren't exactly the same size, so wedge spacers really help to make up for those that are too small or too large.
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Unread 07-25-2019, 08:32 PM   #5
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Thanks for the advice man. I forgot to mention that in order to maximize space we are planning to install a pocket door. My concern is that the plumbing and time will be on the pocket door wall. Is this possible using one do the pocket door system like Johnson?
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Unread 07-25-2019, 09:14 PM   #6
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The Johnson pocket door systems have about 3/4” of free space on either side of the door to the drywall for the 2x4 frame. Add about an inch for the 2x6 wall style. Not really much room for plumbing, unless it’s just supply piping.
You could build out the wall more to accommodate vent and drain piping.
The Johnson instructions were fairly clear on the measurements and dos and don’ts. All depends on how much space you can afford.
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Unread 07-25-2019, 09:28 PM   #7
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I assume you mean a pocket door that will have tile on it, in the shower?

I would advise against that. I haven't seen pocket door framing that was strong enough to survive a ceramic tile installation. Maybe there's a manufacturer that is building one that would work, and I just haven't seen it.

I guess if I was desperate, I'd build my own out of 2x4's. Then I'd know it was strong enough. It would certainly take up more space, but if it was T'd into a perpendicular wall close by, it wouldn't matter so much.
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Unread 07-26-2019, 03:37 AM   #8
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Didn’t think of that. Now this is a dumb idea but might as well throw it out there. What if I did do the 2x4 pocket door but then just frame out another sperate wall inside the bathroom that will hold the plumbing and tile. Might be a waste of space though.
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Unread 07-26-2019, 05:48 AM   #9
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Maybe if you draw up and post a floor plan, John, we'd be able to help you come up with some ideas.

I love pocket doors, but having one on a wall that also houses plumbing is a challenge - there's just not much space in the wall cavity. And while the Johnson kits use 1X material wrapped with steel to give the 1X's more strength they're still a bit flimsy - not sure I'd trust such a wall to hold tile.
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Unread 07-26-2019, 08:05 AM   #10
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Hello everyone,

First off thank for all the advice. Here is layout of my current bathroom. The wall in between the toilet and shower is in fact hiding the vent stack, which I plan to relocate to the outer wall and the bathtub supply. Inside the closet, there is also a AC duct that I plan to change out from a flexible type to rigid one and put in between the stud...that or also relocate to the outer wall if there room.I want to use the closet and add it to the bathroom, helping me gain an additional 2 feet of space. This would allow me to put the toilet farther away from the window wall. I was then planning to put the shower up into the closet, change the piping so its facing the opposite way from what it was originally, then put a knee wall or glass divider between the toilet and shower and also acts as the shower back. Tile in the shower will only be on two walls (front and side).

I originally was simply going to keep the swinging door, which is currently 30", and just move it flush to the closet and make sure it swings into the bathroom instead of out as it is now. By doing that though I also loose 30" of space on the vanity wall side. My neighbor gave me the suggestion of using a pocket door on that wall to conserve space.

Any suggestion would greatly be appreciated.
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Unread 07-28-2019, 05:58 PM   #11
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You're going to need space to walk into the room anyway. Since you are planning to have the door in the corner of the room a pocket door wouldn't really gain you any space. Just have a left hand inswing door that will be against the wall when it's open.
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Unread 08-01-2019, 06:16 AM   #12
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How to level/plumb studs before Sheetrock/tile backer

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to pick everyone’s brain on your process in regards to leveling/plumbing walls. I am past the demo portion of my project and now need to install sheetrock and tile backer. Although the bathroom is completely gutted, there is still Sheetrock on the other side for two adjacent rooms. When I use a 4 foot level, I find that some studs are bowed out while some are recessed as much as 1/4 inch to as much as 3/8’s. How do I go about fixing these issues of more correctly which method is correct. Is it called furring or shimming? I see people using wood slats and sistering the studs while other using hard cardboard shims. Is there a right way? understand that rectifying this is the single most important thing I can do that will make tiling far easier. My home was made in the 50’s and nothing’s flat...in fact when we demoed the space we were surprised to find an entire bath underneath (two layers of Sheetrock, tile ceiling as Sheetrock, two subfloors).
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Unread 08-01-2019, 11:29 AM   #13
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Both shimming and furring can be effective methods for correcting low spots, but would probably be used in different situations. You can also add sister studs to existing.
For high spots, I think easiest is to use power plane. You can rent or buy and resell after.

In conjunction with above,I will often float drywall flat with construction adhesive like PL Premium (my favorite).

1.Find and remember high spots
2.Fit drywall
3.Gun adhesive onto studs
4. install with a few strategic screws at high spots.

24 hrs. later you can put a few more screws in. Once adhesive sets it will bridge low spots. The drywall will want to be flat as long as it has been stored that way. I have done the same with foam boards and CBU. This technique takes a little finesse and you have to resist the urge to put a zillion screws in...it's just not necessary. Also not in manufacturer's instructions because of too many ways to get it wrong. Future remodelers will cuss because of difficulty in dismantling. I'll invoke CX's warranty at this point, but have many such installations behind me.


When I first read that part about finding another bathroom underneath, I was thinking "hidden room"...oh boy! But, alas, methinks you have many layers, common on old houses that have been remodeled a few times.
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Unread 08-02-2019, 07:00 PM   #14
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Thanks carbidetooth,

Took little work but starting to get it. Next stop buying the shower pan. We settled on either a Kohler cast iron bellwether or a foam system like Schluter or KBRS. We are stuck on the actual size that would make sense for us. Based in the updated plans, what do you think? 48x34 or 60x34? Should we get a single or double threshold? If I get the single, above Kohler, then I will have to build a knee wall to accommodate the glass. A double one will allow me to forgo the knee wall but I will have to buy an acrylic shower basin?

How big you think I can go and get able room for the toilet. Before the remodel we only had 24” which was way to cramped.

John
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Unread 08-03-2019, 10:13 AM   #15
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IMHO the room needed to take a satisfying shower is smaller than what the current trends might suggest.


More important would be opening up sight lines in small space. I don't know if that wall separating toilet from shower in original plan is full height, but making shower walls from glass has at least two benefits.


1. Takes up less space than a framed and rocked wall

2. Visually opens room up


The downside is it costs more and requires some forethought. If door will hinge on glass, my good glass folks will require that there be a header on glass or glass continues to ceiling. If I know it's going to ceiling, I install some blocking for them to attach to. In many cases, this will help define design and door placement.

If choosing between two plans shown, I'd take original with mods to toilet wall and closet. If you'd consider making your own mortar pan, the possibilities open up some. Some more cabinetry and breathing room. I almost always advise against 10 lbs. of potatoes in a 10 lbs. sack. If you can make it work putting 9lbs in the sack, I suspect you'll like it better. Remember the empty space is just as important as the occupied space, especially in small rooms.
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