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Unread 10-20-2019, 08:24 PM   #1
smooth nobody
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liquid membrane - yay or nay ?

first remodel. been reading for days. got a liner for the floor but debating liquid membrane for the walls. i've heard tons of points from both sides. been doing it for years without it. we have it now why not use it? it's expensive. it's a fraction of a shower remodel. incorrect user application can render it useless. tile thinset and cement board is enough. etc etc. would like to continue the debate while also throwing in another idea, liquid rubber. $100 for 5 gallons. enough to be used for floor and walls at a fraction of the price. i'm curious but it sounds to good to be true. gotta be something i'm not realizing or more people would be using it, right? been trying to be diligent with my reading but so far the only concern i'm coming up with is will thinset stick to it. manufacturer responded yes on amazon but calling technical support tomorrow to ask more questions. what do you guys think?

liquidrubberusa.com/collections/all/products/foundation-sealant?variant=26026234627
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Unread 10-20-2019, 08:33 PM   #2
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Ask them if they've passed any plumbing code certifications for use in a shower. If not, in theory, it shouldn't pass your local plumbing inspection. That is not to say that it might not work. If I were going to choose one, I'd want one that has passed and posted the requisite test results and certifications.

Personally, I much prefer a sheet membrane versus a liquid as there's less chance of a pinhole, thin sections, runs, etc. With a sheet, you must ensure the seams are done right, but that isn't really all that hard.

FWIW, using a conventional liner and a liquid applied membrane has the potential of creating a sandwich that would allow moisture between the two. Most all of the liquids do not work well with vapor pressure from behind them. The harder thing with this type of install is the seal to the drain.
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Unread 10-20-2019, 10:41 PM   #3
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Is this liquid rubber designed to be used behind tile?
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Unread 10-21-2019, 12:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O.P.
i'm curious but it sounds to good to be true.
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

I'd check the written manufacturer's specs on this product and see if it can be used in a shower application. If it doesn't mention that, you can bet that if it fails, the company won't stand behind it. And there you'll be, right back where you started.

I wouldn't have any problem using a PVC liner on the floor and a liquid membrane on the walls over cement board.
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Unread 10-21-2019, 09:09 AM   #5
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Tile products are designed as bondable membranes. That would be my question. On a floor there is also the concern of how compressible.
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Unread 10-21-2019, 10:16 AM   #6
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Wink

Kinda easy answer--It MUST pass ANSI 118.10 per plumbing code AND Tile Council of America Handbook.
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Unread 10-21-2019, 01:34 PM   #7
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When I queried the manufacturer on his website chat feature yesterday, asking if the product met the ceramic tile industry standards of ANSI A118.10, I got the following response:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Rubber
Thanks for waiting. Unfortunately, we do not have a product that adheres well to ceramic tiles. I'm not aware of any products that might work.
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Unread 10-21-2019, 02:17 PM   #8
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i spoke with the technical and sales department today. they said the same things. it can be used in replace of a liner and liquid membrane. tile can be adhered to it if you use a modified thinset. they have done ASPM testing and it's actually more durable than liquid membranes cause it's made to withstand the elements and often used in ponds where it's rated to hold significantly more water. but it's not ANSI certified cause that's not their target market. they don't want to be involved with codes for different jurisdictions and all the costs that come with testing and certificates. i have some test results documents and other stuff from them if anybody wants me to share it.

also, this is what my shower looks like so far. just want to make sure everything is right before we carry on. anything look wrong? anybody know the difference between these two concrete boards? lowes told me just the thickness, how easy it is to cut, and where the board is used, floors or walls. said there was no difference when it comes to water/moisture protection.
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Unread 10-21-2019, 02:49 PM   #9
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ASTM, with regards to shower pans liner would be ASTM D4068 or ASTM D4551
AND it doesn't meet either of them either!
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Unread 10-21-2019, 03:03 PM   #10
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so it's not certified to be used in showers. got it. what does that mean exactly? that it's not suitable for showers, or it's just not certified for showers? the way they were talking sounded like it will function exactly the same or better than other liquid membranes. it's just not approved for shower use. this kinda reminds me of how some medications are known to work for conditions they are not approved for but are still recommend by doctors for "off label" use.
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Unread 10-21-2019, 03:08 PM   #11
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Welcome. Please change your permanent signature line to a first name for us to use. Don't care to call anybody nobody, eh?
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Unread 10-21-2019, 03:09 PM   #12
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Unread 10-21-2019, 04:14 PM   #13
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Just doesn't seem worth the risk, and you aren't saving much money, if any, depending on how big your project is.

RedGuard: $50/gallon which nets 40sf
Liquid Rubber: $20-40/gallon which nets 20sf

I'd be worried what else is in that product! Is it stable over time, or will it leach out through the grout/stone tile? Does it have the proper adhesion to hold thinset mortar/tiles on a wall?
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Unread 10-21-2019, 04:25 PM   #14
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the more expensive stuff is for UV protection and other things that don't apply to showers. the stuff people use in showers is $20 a gallon. $20 vs $50 a gallon is a pretty significant difference. factor in i wouldn't have to spend $80 for a liner and the savings is undeniable. not gonna use it cause i like to do things proper but i sure do want to give it a go.
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Unread 10-21-2019, 04:29 PM   #15
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Application thickness of the product matters too. The figures I quoted were from their website. Need to buy 2x as many gallons. So $20/gallon helps on cost but not as much as you’d expect.
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