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Unread 08-30-2019, 08:32 AM   #1
BrianBrasher
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Advice Needed - where to start

I have a ~4x4 tile shower with a cracked fiberglass shower pan. The shower is in a corner and has a Jacuzzi tub adjacent to it.

I want to rip out the tile and pan and install a curb and tile (or stone) shower floor and re-tile the shower and adjacent Jacuzzi tub facade. Then, have a glass company do frame-less glass door and 4th wall. I have the skills necessary to do the tile and waterproofing work, just not the knowledge and directions.

I recently read that foam board (go-board, etc.) might be a good waterproofing solution for the walls vs. a sheet membrane system. I thought about building the curb and doing a mortar bed, but might just buy the kerdi pan and curb.

I am overwhelmed by all of the different systems and methods and just want to do it right. I have the tile mostly picked out but am hung up on the method.

All advice and help / suggestions appreciated!!!!! I can post some pictures of what's existing this weekend.

Thanks!!!
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Unread 08-30-2019, 11:04 AM   #2
jadnashua
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If you're going to use Kerdi, I'd also go with Kerdiboard. You can get structural walls if you go with the thicker panels. Schluter has a bunch of videos on their website that show you how to do this sort of thing. There are some other products you could use that are similar.
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Unread 09-01-2019, 10:01 AM   #3
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All of the systems work it's just a matter of installing them properly.

It's probably best to stick with one manufacturer and use their entire system. Whether that's Schluter, Laticrete, Wedi, Durock, etc.

In my opinion, Wedi has the best quality and stiffest foam board on the market with Durock a close second. But I would have no issues installing Schluter or Laticrete's either. GoBoard has a nice backerboard but I'm not sure that they are offering a complete shower system at this time.
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Unread 09-19-2019, 07:19 AM   #4
BrianBrasher
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Thanks for the responses. We have identified some 8"x 24" faux wood tile that I will run horizontally in the shower and around the tub area. There is no bullnose to match, so will have to use some schluter corner beads on the nooks and where needed.

I have a question on the shower floor. We like the look of a river rock / pebble type floor, but I'm worried that it will hold water or not drain well. What are your thoughts on that? I want what works best, not something hard to keep clean. Am i right on my pebble shower floor concerns? Thanks!
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Unread 09-19-2019, 07:46 AM   #5
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From everything I've read here on rock/pebble shower floors, Brian, you are right to be concerned on both counts.

The drainage challenge can be mitigated by increasing the slope of the floor to the drain to roughly twice the 1/4" per foot minimum.

Keeping it clean I think is more of a challenge. Just like the standing area in a standard white tub, it gets dirty. The difference is it's relatively easy to clean off a smooth enameled surface, and relatively easy to remove from the tub's friction surfaces as well.

With the large amounts of sanded grout needed on one of those floors, all that grout is going collect, well, everything; oils, soaps, skin, etc etc. You can probably hide that standing area a bit by using dark colored pebbles and grout, but I think it's still going to be tough to clean when it needs to be.

Just my opinion though, I've never lived with one.
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Unread 09-19-2019, 07:51 AM   #6
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Yes on pebble concerns. Especially with rounded stones. I'd shoot for close to 3/8" per ft. slope with pebbles.

Now for opinion. I don't like the way most pebble floors look. The contrast between the modularity of rectangles or squares and the random shape of stones just doesn't jibe with my idea of crisp an clean. They often look kind of sloppy to my eye. A sea of grout with stones.

But I don't live there, so take that with whatever salt you deem necessary.
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Unread 09-19-2019, 09:31 AM   #7
BrianBrasher
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Thanks for validating my concerns! You both make perfect sense and the sea of grout with scattered stones is exactly how I feel! That being said, we will go to the tile place again tomorrow and see what options there are. Off the top of my head, I think I remember seeing some small octagonal floor tile that might work well with the wood plank tile.

what do you think about using the schluter bead stuff on the outside corners and terminations and at the nook since there is no bullnose available in the wood tile we have chosen? Not keen on having exposed tile edge.

While I've done a good bit of floor tile work, this will be my first time building / remodeling a shower, so it's gonna get real interesting real fast!

Here are some photos of existing. I did the floor about 10 years ago and prefer to keep it!
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Unread 09-19-2019, 10:43 AM   #8
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Though I'm not keen on using the Schluter profiles (but did have to use a couple of short lengths in my recent MB overhaul) they are certainly better than exposed tile edges. You could also splurge on some contrasting solid material for the niche shelf and inside surround but that does add cost.
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Unread 09-19-2019, 07:08 PM   #9
BrianBrasher
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2 questions:

1. If you look at the pics above, I plan on taking the tile all the way to where the wall meets the ceiling. In she area above the tub, can I just use mastic and install directly to the sheetrock or do I need to replace the sheetrock with Hardibacker or something?

2. What about the jacuzzi tub surround? What should that be, plywood or something else?

In the shower I plan on taking the sheetrock out and installing whatever system I end up picking.

Thanks!

Brian
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Unread 09-19-2019, 11:08 PM   #10
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Welcome, Brian.

In the shower you must install a CBU to a point above the shower head supply pipe. That's considered the wet area. Above that you can leave the drywall and you could install your tile there with organic adhesive (mastic) if you want, but it'd likely be easier, and certainly less expensive to install the tile with the same thinset mortar you use for the rest of the shower.

If you elect to use the Kerdi System, you can use drywall in the entire shower and apply the Kerdi over that. You could also use Kerdi Board or one of the other foam boards for your walls, but especially for a DIY project I don't find them cost effective. If you use any other waterproofing system you'll need to use a CBU for your walls.

The walls above your tub are not technically considered a wet area and could be simply drywall, but I would recommend you waterproof at least a foot or so of those walls anyway.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-20-2019, 05:43 AM   #11
BrianBrasher
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CX, thank you!

If I go with kerdi, then would I just demo out the existing drywall and install the greenboard drywall stuff with the kerdi membrane on top, or is it better to go CBU under the kerdi? When you say waterproof a foot or so above the tub, do you mean the same system, say kerdi? Would that system also be applied to the tub surround on both the vertical face and horizontal area? And, would the tub surround substrate supposed to be plywood? I haven't started demo so I don't know whats under there yet. One more, if I put the membrane on the face of the tub surround what happens where it meets the floor? I plan on keeping the existing floor tile.

Sorry for all of the questions, just trying to make sure I have my ducks in a row before I go full on demo. Thanks!
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Unread 09-20-2019, 08:55 AM   #12
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You'll want to read and follow the manufacturer's installation instructions for whatever waterproofing system you elect to use, Brian. In the case of Schluter's Kerdi, they recommend plain white drywall as the backing material. Not only is there no advantage to the use of MR Board (greenboard) in that application, but it can be problematic. Actually, I don't recommend the use of MR Board for any interior application at all. If it makes you feel better you can use CBU as your backing material for the Kerdi installation and Schluter will approve that.

I would recommend you look into the USG Durock Shower System if you've not already purchased any material. Thinner membrane, better perm rating, easier to apply in my opinion. All you need to purchase is the membrane and the drain, both of which are available from Amazon. For that you technically want a CBU as your backing material, but I'd certainly not hesitate to use it over the existing drywall of your tub surround.

You do not want plywood as a backing material for any direct bonded waterproofing membrane (ANSI A118.10) on the market.
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Originally Posted by Brian
if I put the membrane on the face of the tub surround what happens where it meets the floor?
Not sure I understand the question, but if you're keeping the existing floor tile you wouldn't do anything there except to use a flexible sealant (caulking) at the tub/floor tile joint.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-20-2019, 09:28 AM   #13
BrianBrasher
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CX, again, thank you, that all makes sense. The jacuzzi tub has a flat area around the top (pics above) and I wasn't sure what the construction of that was. I have stood on it and it seems solid, so i assumed it was plywood under the tile. If I water proof around the tub I'm guessing something would have to go between the plywood and membrane. I'm sure the manufacturers instructions will answer this, hopefully.

It looks like i can use the foam board on the walls in lieu CBU and membrane, is that correct? Is it a lot easier?

this morning we have gone away from a pebble shower floor and have landed on some small, maybe 1 x 1 (or less) mosaic color stone in 12" sheets. Any concerns with that for a shower floor?

Thanks!
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Unread 10-01-2019, 12:20 PM   #14
BrianBrasher
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Brian's First Shower and Bath Project

Well, I think I'm almost ready to go on this thing. So far here is what we (the wife) has picked:

1. 6" X 24" ceramic wood grain tile run horizontally on walls, 1/8" grout joints
2. 5/8" X 5/8" square stone mosaic tile for shower floor
3. Schluter Jolly 3/8" Cream trim for all outside corners and at vertical and horizontal tile termination walls and niches (tile we chose does not have a bullnose option)
4. Will try to fit (2) 12" X 20" Niches with shelves, one if two won't fit.
5. Antique white grout everywhere
6. Admix sealer for the grout, seemed to work well on a floor I did years ago
7. Stain-proof sealer for stone
8. Haven't decided on shower system yet, leaning towards Kerdi since it looks like the easiest and I haven't done a shower before. USG system looks good also, but some reviews say the thinner membrane is harder to get lined up on the walls? Also, I'm considering using the kerdi board on the walls to avoid having to install the membrane there. But not sure.
9. Plan on getting frame-less glass shower doors

Need to double check measurements and get the materials (except the shower system) ordered and plan to start demo once the materials come in. I wanted to wait until after demo of the shower to see what I actually have as far as size before ordering a shower pan and curb. I really want to build my own mud pan and curb, but am terrified I'll hose it up and it will leak.

Am I missing anything else? In the pics, the shower pan is set back from the edge of the tub. Should I put the new curb flush with the edge of the tub and run the tile across?

With no bullnose available, what is the best way to address the top of the curb and window sill?

Here are some pics of how it sits now. will Post some more as I get going on demo.
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Unread 10-01-2019, 12:36 PM   #15
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Brian, let's keep all questions related to this project on this thread so that questions and answers aren't duplicated, and the history is in one place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
Should I put the new curb flush with the edge of the tub and run the tile across?
I can't see from your pictures what's in that space in front of the door. Just determine if you'll have plenty of room to stand in that space and open the door with no obstructions. Sometimes just having the door swing in the right direction makes a difference. Other than that, there's no reason I can see not to bring the curb out further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
With no bullnose available, what is the best way to address the top of the curb and window sill?
With the same or similar Schluter profile you're using throughout the rest of the project.
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