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Old 06-22-2018, 01:36 PM   #16
BobbyNorthSouth
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Funny you should mention...we're going to 3mm (.11811" vs .125"=1/8") in the rest of the install (about 2200 sq ft) because of expansion joint worries.

Since we don't know the tile's alpha (Coefficient of linear thermal expansion), we're going to assume the highest alpha given in EJ171 Table 1. Using that alpha (.00001 inches per [inches per degree C]) and the Mapei Mapesil T (class 25, so S value=25 in the formula given in EJ171), that would mean expansion joints every 16 feet.

I know, I know, we're going below the "In practical application...in no case shall the movement joints be less than 1/8" wide" stipulation, so all bets are off.
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby
"In practical application...in no case shall the movement joints be less than 1/8" wide"
What are you quoting there, Bobby?
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Old 06-22-2018, 06:13 PM   #18
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CX

The 2018 TCNA Handbook, EJ171, p431 (right below EJ171 Table 1).
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:21 PM   #19
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Bobby,

Just wondering ,are you using spacers or an anti lippage system(leveling)?
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:36 PM   #20
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Mark, we're using Perfect Level Master anti-lippage.
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:14 PM   #21
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Thought it might be something I'm missing. I'm still operating out of a 2015 version and it doesn't even have a Table 1 under EJ171, so I got no idea what else they might have changed. Sorry about that.
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:23 PM   #22
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Backer rod install for expansion joint

Looking at EJ171, it says to keep the joint cavity "...open and free of dirt, debris, grout, mortar, and setting materials."

Does anyone have a good/recommended technique on how to install backer rod for the expansion joints?

Do you insert the backer material immediately after tile installation on the mortar (how do you control for mortar oozing up into the grout lines?), or lay the field up to the expansion joints and then cut back the mortar with a tool after it dries?

If you don't use a manufactured product, do you use wood? Has anyone used coffee stir sticks vertically and then just pulled them out?

I hate to re-invent wheels, especially since I'm not smart.
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:31 PM   #23
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CX-san, all the great advice you give around here, I'm personally glad you participate and give so freely of your knowledge and wisdom. I am but a humble student not yet ready to snatch the grasshopper from your hand, lol!!!

Seriously though, if it weren't for you and others like you, I wouldn't even know what source or book to use to do my homework!! I'll suffer the occasional outdated info gladly!!!
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Old 06-23-2018, 01:38 AM   #24
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It’s far easier to clean the mortar from the joints that will be expansion joints while it’s still wet. Use a wooden stick cut to the width of your grout joints. Waiting to clean until the mortar has dried is far more difficult.

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Old 06-23-2018, 12:46 PM   #25
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Getting ready to cut and dry fit

Name:  IMG_6637a.jpg
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I know, lotsa chalk dust. I prob'ly shoulda done two lines per re-load.
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Old 06-24-2018, 12:47 PM   #26
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Why are the baseboards still on the walls?
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:05 PM   #27
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Ummm...because...separation anxiety?

I'm hilarious.

We were supposed to remove them? I also don't plan to put a perimeter expansion joint in (because the tile will end just shy of the baseboards...a fact that will be covered by quarter-round) as the tile will likely have more than 1/2 inch of breathing room between the joist/drywall combo.
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Old 06-24-2018, 04:18 PM   #28
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Lotta folks, self included, don't like the look of an added quarter-round or shoe-mold added to the baseboards for a new tile installation, Bobby. We generally recommend removal of said baseboards before tiling and replacement on top of the new installation. That, along with undercutting all door jambs and casings makes for a nice, clean appearance. Should be important to a guy willing to spend the time and effort to use 1/16th" grout joints, seems to me.

That said, so long as you leave an open movement accommodation joint of at least 1/4" width around the entire perimeter of your installation it should be fine. You must comply with the tile industry requirements for movement accommodation within the field of the installation, too, of course.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 06-24-2018, 04:53 PM   #29
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No kidding! I've only been a homeowner in FL (Panhandle before, and now N of St. Augustine).

The hard and fast rule here seems to be hard floor, quarterround; soft floor (carpet), no quarterround.

There are million dollar homes just around the corner from me (I was just lookin' at closet ideas...next on the list after tiling the house) being built by 'custom builders' that have quarter-round on their wood and tile floors.

Back in the panhandle, 'back in the day,' we had our starter home tiled (from carpet [no quarterround], to floating laminate [with quarterround], to tile), and they put in brand-new quarterround when the tile went in.

I thought that was just the way it is.
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Old 06-24-2018, 05:58 PM   #30
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Shoe mold looks nicer than 1/4 round.It is not as wide so make sure you do not leave too much of a gap.
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