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Old 12-26-2011, 03:25 PM   #286
John Bridge
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I won't answer the questions above because most of them can't be answered with a yes, a no or a sound-bite. Each of the items deserves a fairly complex discussion.

I don't want to intertwine the constitutional amendment thread with this one, but a lot of this can be decided by a simple read-through of the Constitution. Pay particular attention to the Tenth Amendment, which reserves "to the states or to the people" most of what the federal government does today.

Most people can easily read the entire document in less than an hour. A careful reading might take a little longer.
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Old 12-26-2011, 04:37 PM   #287
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Dr. Paul's policy of non-intervention would certainly avoid these situations.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=28275
*The video in the link is pretty disturbing and extremely graphic.

Rick, I'm curious if you've ever traveled outside the continental United States?
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:52 AM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
Find anything wrong with his answers there Rick? Should the Congress and govt. follow the rule of law before entering war?
Why are you asking me a dumb question like that? First, you made an assumption that I supported Obama and/or Donald Trump, a totally false assumption. Now, I'm ok with Congress breaking the law?? Whats next, I support pedophiles?? Your credibility is slowing eroding, Jason.

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Originally Posted by John
I won't answer the questions above because most of them can't be answered with a yes, a no or a sound-bite.
Of course they can be answered with a yes or no. I can answer them with a yes or no. I even gave multiple choice options in some cases just so you guys wouldn't have an excuse not to answer them. Of course, Iím open-minded and not afraid to challenge my candidate on issues I donít completely agree with which doesn't seem to be the the case with the high pedestal you have put your candidate on. If you canít answer the questions, how can I believe you are men of your convictions?

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Originally Posted by Cary
Rick, I'm curious if you've ever traveled outside the continental United States?
I have Cary but on a very limited basis. I have not been further than Jamaica and Mexico. My parents traveled virtually the entire world when they were alive. Iíve heard many stories.
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:02 AM   #289
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Your link is a liberal hit piece filled mostly with biased opinion i.e. ""we're slowly becoming a police state"". What a bunch of liberal bullshit!! Yes, there were abuses committed by American soldiers during the Iraq war, and I'm as sickened by it as you are. I'm guessing there have been abuses by Americans in every war in history. You take a large group of people, soldiers, cops, firemen, athletes, tilemen, etc, and you will always have some bad seeds.
That alone is hardly a valid reason to stay out of a war if that war is necessary to the welfare on our nation. I'm not saying Iraq was necessary. Just making a generalized statement.
As far as the Patriot Act argument (that it is unconstitutional) that you guys are so hell-bent on defending, here is a link that provides the other side (there is almost always an other side) to the argument. Curious to hear your un-biased, objective answers to this link.
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:46 AM   #290
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Yes Rick, you seem completely fine with Congress and the President breaking the law.

And please, stop implying that I'm dumb and stupid and just say it man.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:18 AM   #291
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Yes Rick, you seem completely fine with Congress and the President breaking the law.

And please, stop implying that I'm dumb and stupid and just say it man.
Geez Jason, you're about as busy as I am.

I would never call you dumb and stupid. Name calling is for the weak and confused. That's not how I roll. I think you are a bit naive and I think you are incredibly stubborn even though I have clearly pointed out holes in your logic. And I definitely don't like being labeled. Now, please show me where I have said, hinted or insinuated that I think its ok for Congress to break the law. If you're going to accuse me, you better back it up.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:41 AM   #292
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Well, Rick, you do seem to support the so called (un) Patriot Act--clearly a violation of the 4th 5th and what ever else congress and the president decide. The constitution is the law of the land, is it not, and when the government violates it they are breaking the law.

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Originally Posted by Benito Mussolini
"The truth is that mankind is tired of liberty."

"All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."

"Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity, quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace."

"It is the State which educates its citizens in civic virtue, gives them a consciousness of their mission and welds them into unity."

"The keystone of the Fascist doctrine is its conception of the State, of its essence, its functions, and its aims. The State is absolute, individuals and groups relative."

"War alone brings up to their highest tension all human energies and imposes the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have the courage to make it."

"War is to man what maternity is to a woman. From a philosophical and doctrinal viewpoint, I do not believe in perpetual peace."

"We have buried the putrid corpse of liberty."
Only one GOP candidate who would contest all of the above--all the rest believe in that type of government.--ie. perpetual war, and an all powerful state.

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Old 12-27-2011, 01:07 PM   #293
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Oops! Here is the link I thought I provided earlier.

http://www.paxamerica.org/2007/02/25...onstitutional/
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:39 PM   #294
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"Section 215 clearly stated that the act couldn’t be used unless the Justice Department has reasonable suspicion that a citizen was associating with a terrorist group."

"Would the court give the government the power if it violated the Constitution? Of course not."

"The USA PATRIOT Act had been proven effective by the Justice Department and the Executive Branch, approved twice by Congress, never declared unconstitutional, and most importantly had prevented another terrorist attack from occurring in America. Even with all of these facts Americans were still challenging the act."

I noted that the author did not sign his or her name to the article.

The law presumes that the people should trust the Attorney General, The Supreme Court, the President and Congress to look after them instead of trusting the Constitution. No thanks.
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Old 12-27-2011, 02:55 PM   #295
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NAACP Nelson Linder speaks about Ron Paul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=OGhv3paNz6U#!
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Old 12-27-2011, 03:03 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John
I noted that the author did not sign his or her name to the article.
Which by itself, doesn't make the article inaccurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John
The law presumes that the people should trust the Attorney General, The Supreme Court, the President and Congress to look after them instead of trusting the Constitution. No thanks.
You guys are all asking me to trust what you say. Whats the difference? Everyone is trying to prove their point but as I pointed out, its not a black and white issue. There must be a gray area because so far, neither side has convinced me they are 100% correct. Everyone puts their own spin on it. From where I sit (or stand) it comes down to how each individual interprets it. There is validity on BOTH sides whether you guys want to believe it or not.
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Old 12-27-2011, 03:10 PM   #297
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I am confused
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Old 12-27-2011, 03:19 PM   #298
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from the pax americana web site:
Quote:
Our nation is blessed to be in a position of influence in the world with power even greater than Rome held, and it is our obligation to wield this power to preserve and extend the new era of ďAmerican Peace.Ē
Not much difference from the neocon think tank PNAC--the guys who brought us the Iraq invasion..

Trying to find out who funds them--could it be the Koch brothers???they are active in Wisconsin politics.

I prefer a foreign policy of peace through trade and commerce., not peace at the end of a gun. we all know what happened to the roman empire, and it's a much bigger world today--- want that for the usa????

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Old 12-27-2011, 03:28 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Everyone is trying to prove their point but as I pointed out, its not a black and white issue. There must be a gray area because so far, neither side has convinced me they are 100% correct. Everyone puts their own spin on it. From where I sit (or stand) it comes down to how each individual interprets it. There is validity on BOTH sides whether you guys want to believe it or not.


Rick, I think you are so very right. I started responding to a few postings here, but deleted all of them because like you just said, it is not black and white, there is validity on both sides, so felt I would just be going in circles. One thing though, that Patriot Act does have lots of problem areas. Really does need to be redone to get rid of those problem areas. It is a touch scary. OKOK, more than a touch scary.
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:05 PM   #300
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I can believe that, Ceci. Nice to have an objective viewpoint. Everything is so rigid and stiff on this thread.
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