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Unread 01-24-2020, 05:16 PM   #16
cx
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VB, what I think the guys are pointing out is that you do not likely have Alaskan Cedar for your joists and you almost certainly do not have Select Structural grade in whatever species you do have. And you've asked for a Deflection Limit of L/480 in that calculator when you're only required to meet L/360 for a ceramic tile installation.

If you have a good species of wood in good condition, your 2x10s on 16" centers should be good for a 14-foot span, but you need to verify that information.

The absolute minimum you must install over your sawn board subflooring for a ceramic tile installation is nominal 1/2" exterior glue plywood and then your tiling substrate of choice. That presumes your board subfloor is laid perpendicular to the joists and are of T&G style and well fastened.

You may, of course, tile over anything you want. We can only tell you what the ceramic tile industry recommends and where the smart money is betting.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-24-2020, 05:20 PM   #17
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There's always the option of removing the 1 X 8's and replacing with 3/4" plywood if height is an issue.
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Unread 01-24-2020, 05:21 PM   #18
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Are the joists visible under that floor, VB, or under any other section of the house? If so, perhaps take a clear photo of the side of one if you're unable to find an identifying stamp on it. Folks here might be able to ID it.

The species of wood does matter.

EDIT: A bit slow on the keyboard, I am.
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Unread 01-24-2020, 05:53 PM   #19
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I certainly appreciate the expertise and the opinions and suggestions... I'm not trying to offend just looking for some guidance from those that do it everyday.

I was simply questioning the post by speed51133 for the deflection of L / 290 when I think its much higher but it's neither here no there.

Quote:
This translates to a deflection of L / 290.

Since the maximum deflection for tile is L / 360, and for natural stone is L / 720, your floor is rated for Sheet Vinyl or wood.
Here's a pic of the underside of the joists..

I'm contemplating cutting out the lumber and installing plywood but would rather not if at all possible.

If I were to remove the 1/4"and add 1/2" plus Schluter and LFT tiles appx. what would the finished floor height be?
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Unread 01-24-2020, 06:02 PM   #20
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1/2"+1/16"+1/8"+1/8"+1/4"=1 1/16"
Ply+thinset+ditra+thinset+tile

You'll end up somewhere around 1"+
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Unread 01-24-2020, 06:31 PM   #21
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Assuming I remove the decking and install 3/4" plywood??

1/16"+1/8"+1/8"+1/4"= 9/16"
thinset+ditra+thinset+tile

Does that sound about right?

Do most people remove the decking, is that a common practice?
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Unread 01-25-2020, 06:59 AM   #22
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Great photo, VB. Unfortunately not any kind of Cedar or Douglas Fir. Appears to be pine and, given that knot, perhaps #2 pine.

Removing the planks introduces new challenges, primarily how to support the edges of the plywood around the perimeter. You'd have to install blocking everywhere. Not un-doable, of course, but can be difficult.

I think the buildup "stack" is short 1/8" as a lot of floor tile is 3/8", not 1/4" thick.
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Unread 01-25-2020, 10:19 AM   #23
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Good news. That’s Southern Yellow Pine. Deflection is L/380.

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Unread 01-25-2020, 04:53 PM   #24
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Thanks ToolGuy for verifying.

I do have a question about the deflection and what that means for tiling... I'm "Assuming" that the deflection is important in determining a solid base and to prevent cracking and grout related issues.

If the above is true then the floor itself is strong enough but my problem is the substrate (1x8's) are not suitable for Ditra, Hardieboard, Durock, etc. Is the need for the 1/2" plywood to satisfy the requirements of the tile backer?

So, I think my options then for installing LFT tile are?

1 - Remove decking 1x8 and re-sheet with 3/4 ply and add Ditra then tile
2 - Add 1/2" exterior glue plywood then Ditra then tile
3 - ???

Thanks.

VB,
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Unread 01-25-2020, 05:01 PM   #25
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#2 would be the better of those choices, VB, but #1 will certainly work.

The reason for the plywood is to isolate your tile installation from the instability of the sawn board subfloor. No manufacturer of tile installation substrates allows his products to be installed over non-engineered wood surfaces.

It is usually not difficult to make height transitions to other types of flooring. What is it you're trying to match?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-25-2020, 05:45 PM   #26
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I kind of thought that might be the case, the manufacturers are looking for more substantial "non-moving" substrates, especially if they have to warranty the product.

I realize that this next thought is going to met with a lot of disapproval but I'm thinking of using 1/4" securely attached to the floor plus Ditra... if I can't sneak in the 1/2" as required by the manufacturer.

My height problem is two fold, an existing tile floor in the foyer and its transition and the kitchen range is seemingly going to be a problem.

Just to verify from an installation perspective... cabinets are usually installed "Before" the floor is set, wood, tile, vinyl, etc., correct?

When I look at the range, the glass top has a chrome trim ring that sits flush with the cabinets and if adding tile underneath it, then the trim will no longer sit on the counter top.. it has me scratchin' my head...
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Unread 01-25-2020, 05:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VB
Just to verify from an installation perspective... cabinets are usually installed "Before" the floor is set, wood, tile, vinyl, etc., correct?
Not in my houses. Hard surface flooring is always installed before cabinets unless an extraordinary scheduling problem occurs.

That still wouldn't necessarily mean there would be finished flooring all the way under a slide-in stove, though. Check your stove and see if there are not some adjustable feet under there.

The big concern with adding 1/4" plywood is that most 1/4" plywood is not of suitable type and is very, very difficult to fasten sufficiently to prevent any vertical movement anywhere and that is likely to be more harmful than installing your substrate directly over the sawn boards, which is a very bad idea. Nominal 3/8th" plywood would be a little better, but can still have the same problem. I wouldn't use anything less than the industry standard requirement of nominal half-inch material.

Entirely up to you, though.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-26-2020, 05:20 AM   #28
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Many thanks for the insight it has been extremely helpful.

I'm going to take another look at the finished floor height and make 1/2" work...

One last question, basement stairs and the transition from tile to carpet. The stairs are currently carpeted and the floor will go from tile to carpet What does an appropriate transition look like?

Something like this?

https://www.diychatroom.com/f5/carpe...-floor-434361/
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Unread 01-26-2020, 10:04 AM   #29
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Your link provides a hundred or more options, so I'd say yes, "something like this."
Show us a photo or give us a description of what your transition will involve, VB.
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Unread 01-26-2020, 04:42 PM   #30
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Sorry about that.. I changed the link see if that is more helpful.
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