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Unread 03-29-2010, 12:02 AM   #31
jjwq8
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How could i not know about this thread?

I got stoned and i missed it.
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Unread 03-29-2010, 07:20 AM   #32
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All drugs were legal in this country in the beginning, and they remained that way until someone decided to make them illegal. During the Founding Period there were more people abusing alcohol than any other single drug. It was commonplace for those folks to be soused by late afternoon.

You can keep drugs away from children the same way we keep other things from children (or try to). Impose very heavy penalties for any adult who makes certain substances available to children -- very heavy penalties.

Under the current setup kids can buy drugs at school.
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Unread 03-29-2010, 10:17 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry
Tile guys are pretty smart fellows.
Yep, some of these guyz are pretty "Fart Smellers", and have you seen some of their work on their sites?? Fantastic... This Forum houses a plethora of excellent mechanics and artists... I'm continually amazed at the work some of guyz do.... Oh and "Go Legal" on most drugs...
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Last edited by MudMaker; 03-29-2010 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Quotation was incorrect - corrected it..:-)
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Unread 03-29-2010, 03:48 PM   #34
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[quote]Under the current setup kids can buy drugs at school. [\quote]
You are so right! I've been a home schooling parent for many years - not for religious reasons - but because of all the crap kids are around at school. Jeez - they have metal detectors at the jr. high and high schools here! That tells me there are a lot more dangerous things than drugs there.

I'm coming around here, guys. I do think pot should be decriminalized. I'm just not sold on decriminalizing the rest of them yet. Keep talking.
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Unread 03-29-2010, 08:49 PM   #35
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Terry, I think the most compelling argument in favor of legalizing drugs is that doing so will put the drug trafficers out of business in one fell swoop. It will end the drug wars in Mexico and in South America. It will end most of the drug related violence in this country. It's like ending Prohibition all over again.
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Unread 03-29-2010, 09:15 PM   #36
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Interesting arguments against legalization from the DEA:

"The greatest weakness in the logic of legalizers is that the violence associated with drugs is simply a product of drug trafficking. That is, if drugs were legal, then most drug crime would end. But most violent crime is committed not because people want to buy drugs, but because people are on drugs. Drug use changes behavior and exacerbates criminal activity, and there is ample scientific evidence that demonstrates the links between drugs, violence, and crime. Drugs often cause people to do things they wouldn’t do if they were rational and free of the influence of drugs."

http://www.justice.gov/dea/demand/speakout/07so.htm
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Unread 03-30-2010, 03:33 AM   #37
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Tommy Chung has spent the vast majority of his life stoned out of his mind and I cannot recall a single report of him being anything other than mellow.
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Unread 03-30-2010, 06:22 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Jeremy
Tommy Chung has spent the vast majority of his life stoned out of his mind and I cannot recall a single report of him being anything other than mellow.
I haven't been around enough troublemakers to say for sure, but most or all of them have been drunk as far as I could tell. I'm guessing the DEA folks who wrote that haven't been to many parties. But what would you expect them to say? They'd have to get a real job if drugs were legal.
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Unread 03-30-2010, 06:24 AM   #39
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Ben, do you think there might be a little bias there? C'mon, the Drug Enforcement Agency? Legalizing drugs will put them out of business, at least business as they know it.

And the problem with their argument is obvious. They focus only on drug addicts as criminals. Those folks are getting the drugs now.
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Unread 03-30-2010, 06:34 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by U.S. DEA Report
Drug use changes behavior and exacerbates criminal activity, and there is ample scientific evidence that demonstrates the links between drugs, violence, and crime.
I am willing to bet the the people who are killing so many in Mexico do not use the drugs. The reason IMO there is so much violence and killing involved has absolutely nothing to do with drug use. It has everything to do with a change of behavior that comes from the unmitigated greed that results from the sale of drugs. Change one word in the DEA's statement and they would probably be correct. Substitute "sales" for "use" in the statement above and I would concur wholeheartedly.
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Unread 03-30-2010, 07:54 AM   #41
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I know that I'm late to this party but I just wanted to share my personal experience on the matter. Back in my halcyon days of punk rock, I had the opportunity to know a lot of people who experimented with a lot of things. My own introduction to drugs started at age 12 and I revisited assorted substances until my late-20s. Because of my parents open-attitude about pot, it held no mystique for me and I found on my own that I didn't enjoy it. That made it easy to walk away from. LSD was easy to take or leave and crack cocaine just seemed like a waste of time to me, but I could absolutely see how it could take control of someone else. I was lucky not to have that susceptibility. Cocaine was too expensive to bother with, in my opinion and I never experimented with opiates or intravenous drug use because I understood from others just how strong the seduction could be and I didn't want to expose myself to that sort of temptation. Methamphetamine however was a big problem for me from my mid-teens until my 30's and I had to struggle on several occasions to dismiss it from my life. I'm pretty confident now that that monkey won't be back.
In all of that, I witnessed quite a few people who fell *immediately* after their first use. Usually it was heroin that snapped them up like a field mouse to an eagle, but I think I saw every drug seduce someone with similar alacrity? I've living with recovering junkies, I've lived with sane people succumbing to that insanity, and I've helped friends pick up the pieces after death, destitution and despair have taken everything away from them.
Saying that drugs don't have the power to subjugate a person's will after a "first use" is naive, in my opinion. But I'm still a Big-L Libertarian as far as people being responsible for their own lives and being held responsible for their impact on others. But how do you define "victimless" in regard to legalization? I agree that pot needs to be decriminalized, but how about heroin? Oxycontin is a legal drug and we've seen how even a pillar of society like Rush Limbaugh can be taken down by it's seduction. How should these "one-shot killers" be treated?
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Unread 03-30-2010, 08:36 AM   #42
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People who want to use drugs will find a way to do so, just as people who wanted a drink during prohibition found ways to do so. And just as it is with those drugs we afford legal status to, a certain percentage of the population who use illegal drugs will do so in an addictive and detrimental manner.

The point is, and always will be, that prohibition of any substance or activity that portions of the population desire never works. The war on drugs, along with the billions of dollars being made on both sides of the battle have nothing to do with keeping our children (or adults for that matter) drug free. It's a given that that is impossible. As with anything, follow the money. Back in the 70's one of the night time landing strips I worked was on the ranch of a prominent state official. No reason to suspect anything is different today.

I'm drug and alcohol free for 20 years now, but prior to that, used it all. Alcohol was, for me, the hardest of all to stop, and the only drug I ever sought help for. But to be perfectly honest, we all have a drug of choice. Whither it is a physical substance, or gambling, shopping, greed,sex, accumulating power -- it all works on the brain the same way, and is part of the human condition. Try as the state will, that can not be stopped through legislation.

Looking at what is happening along the texas border right now should be indication enough of the futility of the war on drugs, and the extreme harm it has brought to the population. As JB mentioned--end the war, the violence will stop. But like I mentioned, follow the money and you will see why there is little official effort to do just that.

JVC

PS--an earlier post referenced child porn--well, just as with any outlawed activity, it is the individual user who is most likely to be prosecuted and find themselves incarcerated. The producers on the other hand are much harder to prosecute, and as with drug traffickers, more likely to have friends in high places.
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