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Unread 01-22-2019, 06:43 PM   #31
cx
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What Lou said, 'cept I'd run my 2x material in the vertical position rather than on the flat. You'll have the entire edge to fasten to, which is more than enough.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-27-2019, 10:14 PM   #32
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The subfloor is moving along. But before I start tiling the floor, I need to prep the walls.

When I gutted this kitchen, I tore out old mud job walls which meant, at least according to the dumpster company, about 5000lbs of mortar and tile. For the most part the old tile extended about halfway up the walls with plaster and lath above. The plaster is intact and will remain that way.

I am planning to re-tile everywhere there was previously tile, and to also tile over some of the old plaster (painting the rest of the plaster.) The same guy who did the SLC this thread started with shimmed the joists and installed green board drywall. Some/much of the drywall was damaged while demoing the subfloor - probably enough that it would be easiest to unscrew the rest and start with new sheets rather than try to patch it.

So that leaves me looking for wall prep options. As the inhabitant of an old house, I really dislike drywall. So my real preference is to remove the greenboard, put up some metal lath, and redo the mudjob. However, I feel like this is probably beyond my DIY skills.

So I guess my initial question is - how prohibitively difficult would it be to lath and mud roughly 160 square feet of wall for someone who has never done it? Secondly, and perhaps more relevantly, any tips on finding a pro who can do it? And third, if that is just not feasible, what are my other options - particularly those that do not involve drywall. Or is drywall the way to go, and I should just stop complaining?
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Unread 01-28-2019, 02:27 AM   #33
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Hi again Clifton,

So what’s the deal about drywall? Unless you’re shooting for a non-perfect wall surface, drywall should look and perform as well as plaster, wouldn’t it? Once it is painted it’s just a flat surface.

In my area and in 15 years I’ve only once run into a plaster wall, so not much experience or reference to why someone would want all that Handwork/difference in finishes?
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Unread 01-28-2019, 10:30 AM   #34
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Why put in a tile floor when peel and stick is so much easier and ultimately works about as well? Why drive a Mercedes when a Toyota has 4 wheels and rolls?

Plaster's surface looks better. It sounds better because the keys behind the wall break up noise. It feels better because it is more solid and because the added thickness insulates. It is stronger. When you bang on it it won't dent - when a door swings the knob won't put a hole in it.* It doesn't promote mold growth both because it does not have anything for mold to eat, and because it does not carry the mold spores into your house in the first place. It doesn't collapse after getting wet. You don't sand it when you install it, so there is no dust.

The advantages of drywall are that it is cheaper, lighter, and it does not require the same skill to install. If you are a builder trying to put in a row of McMansions those are huge advantages, but if you are trying to restore a historically significant building that should survive for another couple of centuries, plaster is the better option.



* the hundred year old tile and mud wall by the back entrance of the house got hit with the doorknob on the entrance door daily, probably for 100 years, and it was in fine shape. The replacement drywall already has a hole in it after 2 weeks of limited use. If we put a tile on that, we're soon going to have a cracked tile.
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Unread 01-28-2019, 02:50 PM   #35
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Very well said. And make total sense from that perspective.

Prior to your explanation I would have recommended what you’d see as a nontraditional approach, - since I don’t do plaster, I would specify Roxall in the joist bays for noise, 5/8” Sheetrock for thickness & to stiffen since you’re looking forward to pounding on them , level 5 drywall mudding for a nice finish, and a doorstop so you won’t bash your walls. And if it was surfaces to be tiled, then I’d use 1/2” CBU.

I am all for using materials and methods in keeping with the character of the home. So as long as it’s not time and cost prohibitive to you, have at it.

At least you could be assured that when the next owner needs to cut a hole in your wall they will find traditional materials behind it.
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Unread 02-04-2019, 11:58 PM   #36
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From a tile setting perspective, for a large wall of 6x3 subway tiles, what are the pros and cons of running bond versus stacked bond?
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Unread 02-05-2019, 07:37 AM   #37
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If the tile was bigger the main concern with a running bond would warped tile and lippage. But with a small tile like a 6x3 you shouldnt have an issue. Stacked would be a little quicker but you'll be fine with either approach.
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Unread 02-08-2019, 10:16 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me
So that leaves me looking for wall prep options. As the inhabitant of an old house, I really dislike drywall. So my real preference is to remove the greenboard, put up some metal lath, and redo the mudjob. However, I feel like this is probably beyond my DIY skills.
I am back to this - I need to figure out the best way to prep the kitchen walls for tiling and get started. I really do want to avoid drywall if possible. But what are my wall options? What do most people do? What is the cost-no-object absolute best practice solution? Is there a type of drywall that will neither crumble nor mold if it gets wet?
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Unread 02-08-2019, 10:30 PM   #39
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Options for tile-able surfaces:

Cement board: Durock, etc. to Hardi-backer. Good but some flex between studs prior to tile

Drywall type: fiberglass faced/backed like DensGuard, DensShield fairly stiff and water resistant

Foam backer - Laticrete Hydro Ban board- stiff, Wedi board, pretty stiff. Johns Manville GoBoard - pretty stiff, Kerdiboard a bit of flex and others. Waterproof and made for tile. Many come in lots of thickness’s so yo can match your plaster depth.

A few ideas that come to mind
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Unread 02-08-2019, 11:41 PM   #40
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One thought had been 1/2" Hardibacker coated in a skim/mud coat of some sort both to bring it out to depth (I think I need about 3/4", maybe a bit more) and to smooth it. Does that seem like a viable option?
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Unread 02-09-2019, 12:53 AM   #41
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Too much work to thicken the surface. Cardboard drywall shims on the studs to bring out to your difference, then mount your board on them with 2” screws.

Remember to give your CBU it’s first drink of water before tiling. It’s thirsty.
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Unread 02-09-2019, 01:07 AM   #42
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I'll have to level it somehow. The studs are not even as they are hand hewn. And they didn't need to be level due to the mortar and lath wall that used to be on them. So if I shim and then hardi, I'll still need a leveling layer of something.
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Unread 02-09-2019, 01:28 AM   #43
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Easily done Clifton. Every (non-mud) tile guy knows how to shim a wavy wall, so you’ve come to the right place.

What you do is get yourself the appropriate length straight edge and use your shims to make the studs on each end perfectly flush with your existing wall surface. Cut a small 1 1/2” wide by 8” handy piece of drywall to use as your mating guide to make sure your cardboard shims fur out sufficiently.

Place your 6’ straight edge horizontally across, for this example, your two newly flushed out studs 6 feet apart. Then take your shims and go stud by stud moving your horizontal straight edge up and down the studs - using as many shims as needed to flush out each stud so that it nicely meets your straight edge. Meaning that you may have 4 shims thickness at the bottom, maybe three shims thickness halfway up, and two shims thickness the rest of the way. You don’t have to use the same thickness of shims across the whole space as all that would do is replicate any irregularities but just further out. You use the shims in various thicknesses on each stud to meet your straight edge resulting in a flat surface to mount your wallboard.

Additionally, if you have a way too outward bowed stud that throws all of your alignment out of whack, you might use a planner to take the bow out of your stud.

It’s easy. We do it every job.

Whack them with one of these
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Unread 02-09-2019, 06:40 AM   #44
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I did my bathroom walls exactly as Kevin described, a combination of shimming, shaving, belt sanding, in a couple instances sistering, and one out right replacement.

Not sure I'd call it easy, but not difficult either. Definitely time consuming though.
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Unread 02-10-2019, 01:35 PM   #45
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Alright, shims. It appears that the drywall guy did some shimming, he just didn't do it very well. Looking carefully at the walls, the plaster is more plumb and flatter than the drywall, but it still has some wave to it. And the drywall kicks out at the bottom.

The plan is for the tile to go from the floor up to about the tops of the doors. So, after replacing the drywall with whatever it gets replaced with, and shimming as I go to make it as flat as possible, I am still going to have a somewhat wavy wall. In that event - is filling in the low spots with something - featherfill?, thinset? - and leveling it with a straight edge a reasonable approach?
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