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Unread 10-03-2013, 11:01 AM   #1
Drevor
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Drevor's bathroom remodel

Hi, I am a newbie on this site and am trying to finish up my first DIY tiling for the shower of my home. I'm stuck on how to set the bullnose tile around the window (see picture) where they intersect the field tile on the walls at 90 degrees. I am worried about not getting a consistent 1/8" or so joint. I used Custom Granite, Marble, Travertine medium bed mortar (their support recommended it) on 18 x 18 with 1/2 x 1/2 towel which gave me a 1/4" build up..too big for this area (I burned in/scratched wall and back buttered tile.) This niche is a tight area, so I am concerned about getting a trowel in there to get even tracks. The bullnose pieces are 2-1/2" x 12" pieces). The recess is 3-1/2" deep, so I will need to fill the remaining gap with 1" wide strips of my 18" field tile (or that is the plan TBD per pictures). I am concerned about getting these all lined up looking good with the bullnose.

1) How should I go about setting the bullnose - Trowel Type & Size of Trowel?
2) Any special technique?
3) How do I ensure same size space for my caulk (or grout) at the 90 degree joints. [Note, if I put in spacers I am concerned about loosing the slope I already built prior to applying my Redgard waterproofing]

4) On another note, any advice how to cut the jamb piece of bullnose to account for the slope on the sill so it is flush with the sill piece? (I will miter 45 degrees as well).? Not sure how to transfer the angle.

Thanks! Help is very much appreciated!!!
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Unread 10-03-2013, 04:47 PM   #2
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Drevor,

Welcome to the forum.

1- Same as the excellent tile work in the rest of your shower.

2- see #1

3- spacers and blue painters tape

4- practice on scraps. its about a 2% slope, if that helps. Normally the cut is a blades width off on each side of the cut
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Unread 10-03-2013, 06:19 PM   #3
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I'm a wood guy so I use one of these to transfer angles.

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-46-825...liding+t+bevel

For getting in the small areas, I find this useful. You can kinda get mud to the area with a flat or margin trowel and then comb it with this.

http://www.tileshop.com/product/prod...FSU6Qgod62YAlA

Food for thought: You probably can get someone local to bullnose some strips cut off your field tile and do that jamb with a single piece rather than the skinny. You can also get a profile wheel for wet saw, but price may be prohibitive for a one-shot deal. If you go that route, your grout joints can wrap around from wall to jamb.

I have compound mitered that sill to jamb joint, but it takes patience. Once you have the angle then you can miter parallel to the angled end on the jamb only. In many cases, I've just set as you've pictured. Most people wouldn't notice, especially if your grout is close to tile color.
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Unread 10-04-2013, 10:41 AM   #4
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Guys, thanks for the quick replies - very much appreciated. This forum is a terrific resource! I added a couple of pictures and new questions to the bottom about handling edge tiles ... I wasn't sure whether to do that or start a new thread for those.

Paul, thanks for the compliment although I have not been feeling my tile work has been "excellent" ...I've fought lippage (though tolerable on a wall) throughout the project and definitely do not want it on the finish work. [I need to get my hands on one of those little notched margin trowels!]

WRT #3,

Maybe I am being a total airhead here but if I place the spacer between the sill tile and wall tile, it will tilt the tile backwards and eliminate my slope. Maybe that is not where you are suggesting I use them? Also Is there a good way to set the tile in thinset and ensure the approx 2% slope is maintained (maybe use stiffer thinset)?

WRT Blue painters tape - where are you suggesting I use that? To hold tiles in place on the vertical pieces? (please keep in mind so far I have only tiled 18" pieces or slightly smaller like 6 x 17 cuts...haven't used any tape on the project yet except to protect material.

WRT #4. Thx. Good idead to gets some scraps and practice. Peter, I got my hands on one of those little Stanley angle transfer tools...good to have! Since this is a corner I'll be staring at every day and want to get it looking good. I think a cut that is close and then make up the difference in grout will likely be good enough :-)

Also I had some additional questions:

1) In general, should I try to eliminate all or most grout joints on the window sill? (ie. maybe get a slab of Corian or other material). My rationale is that grout joints (I'm using Fusion) is a path for water absorption on a near horizonal surface with that is going to get bombarded with water. Despite the slope and all the redguard underneath the tile, it's still a path for water to accumulate with no drain.

2) I am struggling with making decisions on my edge tile about 6" beyond the wet area of my shower where it meets the finished wall. I'll be cutting down the 2.5" x 12" bullnose pieces to fit. My tiled shower on each wall ranges about 15/16 to 1-3/16" beyond the gypsum wall (per pictures). I'm thinking that different size edge pieces will look bad, so I cut them all to 15/16 width? After setting the edge pieces, I then skim coat the wall (and re texture) to hide the flaw. With the skim coat, I hold the mud back about 1/8" from the tile for a caulk joint. Is this a good plan that will look ok? Suggestions/Better approach?

[Background about the edge pictures: the guy who helped me cut the HBB did a poor job so the edges of the boards did not line up perfectly. I installed the field tiles a little over the edge (about 1/4") so they all line up on edge. I then used my custom medium bed mortar and some mesh tape embedded to fill and even out the edge gaps to provide a surface to install the edge tile. I'm about to redgard the edges and on to the wall again.]
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Unread 10-04-2013, 11:18 AM   #5
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Drevor,

3- Yes the blue tape hold the pieces in place from slipping. Yes, place a spacer below the sill tile and above the wall tile. If that slopes your sill tile the wrong way, then add medium set mortar to the tile. Thinset has a max working depth of 1/4" unless your manufacturer tells you otherwise. You can also shim with a piece of CBU or kerid board or ditra or similar, thinsetted into place.

1B- One solid piece at the sill, which matches the bench seat, the niche sill, the curb top and the vanity top is a nice touch which unifies the bathroom

2B- to avoid patching or floating the drywall we usually overlap the tile into the dry part of the drywall area about an inch or so. Makes for a clean finish. Not sure what those measurements will have yours look like, so this one's up to you.
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Unread 10-04-2013, 01:28 PM   #6
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Paul, thanks for the quick reply. It may be hard to tell from the picture...my tile is already even with the gypsum and 3/4 to 1-1/4" out from the wall. That was the result of firring out the framing so HBB would overlap the lip of the pan, so my only option (I think) was doubling up the drywall and shimming or my suggested approach of skimming the drywall or varying the width of the bullnose edge tiles. I unfortunately seem stuck on this path. I'm not a drywall guy either...so I hope this can be done to look good. I thought about just using some type of molding (adhere with construction adhesive), caulk, and paint on the outer edge instead of tile and then tie it with some small crown molding around the ceiling beyond the shower. Btw, this room has just a toilet and pocket door along with the shower.

Regarding the sloped sill, it sounds like you are suggesting that I can just trowel on the mortar (maybe a little extra thick), put down the spacer, lay the tile, and hold a level to it while pressing down with to ensure I maintain my pitch. Is that correct? No worries about the tile settling down as my medium bed mortar cures?

THANKS!
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Unread 10-05-2013, 02:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drevor
I thought about just using some type of molding (adhere with construction adhesive), caulk, and paint on the outer edge instead of tile and then tie it with some small crown molding around the ceiling beyond the shower
a dome or pencil liner can be another really nice option for this situation.
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Unread 10-05-2013, 02:40 PM   #8
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Thanks Brannigan for the suggestion. Please excuse my ignorance...Dome or Pencil liner...I'm not familiar with these. Could you please elaborate or point me in the right direction where I can find examples?

Appreciate it!!!
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Unread 10-05-2013, 03:14 PM   #9
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I found some examples of Dome and Pencil Liner. Brannigan, were you suggesting these as a way to address my problem with the uneven out edge issue to help me avoid having the fix the drywall or just another nice option instead of bullnose tile? If the former, is some amount of uneveness noticeable from inside the shower if the pencil or dome vary in the amount they protrude beyond the shower wall tile? I could have 1/16 to 1/2 inch fluctuation although some of that could be buried in the joint between the dome/pencil and drywall. With the bullnose tile, I was going to split the difference...use bullnose tile width of 7/8 to 1-1/16 (hard to notice unless you are looking for it) and then doing some drywall fix, caulk and paint.
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Unread 10-05-2013, 08:16 PM   #10
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Pencils and Shelf

Brannigan is right about the pencils to use. Not to advertise my website, but it's easier to have you look at those pics than to attach them here (lazy tonight). I use pencils to hide the grout lines on my niches and your window is really a great big niche. I make most of my own bullnose so that means I just like the look of the pencils on the grout lines better.

Look at my shower page and you'll see. The shelf is a good idea because if you extend it out an inch or two you have someplace for more storage.
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Unread 10-06-2013, 12:36 PM   #11
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Thanks for the suggestion about using the pencil liner around the window (I thought Brannigan's suggestion was to use them to address my outer shower edge problem/finishing.)

Given that I did not plan for pencil liners and have already tiled right up to the edge of my window/giant niche, how do I need to proceed in order to install the pencil liners? For example, do I just install my flat edge wall tile (no bullnose) all around the interior of the window right up to the tile on the walls. After those cure, then just thinset the pencil liner right onto the wall tile so it lines up perfectly with the window tiles to cover that grout joint where they meet (Obviously need to scarify or use a bonderizer on wall tile prior to setting). Sorry if this is a dumb question, but all I've ever set are floor tiles and those with the edges bullnosed

Thanks!
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Unread 10-06-2013, 02:48 PM   #12
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Yes, you just flat edge the tiles and I epoxy or Loctite the pencils to the edge. And you could also use them instead of bullnose on the tile to drywall transition. That's why I use them between field tile and mosaics because the field tile is normally at a different mortar height than the mosaic. Pencils allow you to address the discrepancy between the heights so you don't have to float out the edges.
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Unread 10-06-2013, 07:10 PM   #13
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Sounds like a good idea. How do you suggest I support the horizontal pencils at the sill while waitng for the expoxy or Loctite to cure? (I built a frame out of 2x4s that I temporarily put inside the niche and then used shims above it to support the field tile above). I'm thinking that duct taping up a horizontal ledger that runs wider than the window niche *may* work?

Also, what type of Loctite do you recommend? I've never worked with it. I do have 1-1/2 gallons of two part expoxy (AeroMarine Epoxy Resin #300 and Hardner #21). Will that do?

Lastly, do you recommend butting the pencils or mitering at 45 around the niche?....

Thanks mucho!!!
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Unread 10-07-2013, 02:43 PM   #14
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I used Loctite Heavy Duty dries clear today on 1/2" wide, 12" long pencils. The pencils stayed put pretty well, but I use painters tape to hold in place just in case. I miter cut the joints.
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Unread 10-07-2013, 06:15 PM   #15
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Thanks Kevin. Have you used that Loctite with porcelain on porcelain without scarifying? I'm concerned about scarifying the new tile already installed and wonder if I'll get a strong enough bond over the existing porcelain tile.

Thanks!!!!
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