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Unread 04-09-2010, 10:46 PM   #1
madronatile
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Iron staining Limestone?

At least I think that's what happened. Installed 12x12 limestone over Ditra, with Ditraset and TLS, 1/16" joint. Super absorbent stone, so much so that I soaked the pieces for a few minutes before installing. I was a little worried about the bond since using unmodified. Also so the full pieces would be uniform with the cuts that got wet on the saw(and to clean off the dust, which there seemed to be a lot of, I didn't want a bond breaker there). Next day there were what appeared to be rust stains on the surface, close to the edges. Not on all tiles, maybe 25%.

Oddly, no staining occurred under the TLS caps-when caps removed the stain followed the cap footprint exactly(older white caps, not the newer style). Leads me to believe that the material causing the stain came to the surface when the water was evaporating, and since it couldn't evaporate through the cap it went to the edges.

Any good fixes? Am I hosed again when water is re-introduced with the grout?
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Unread 04-10-2010, 12:04 AM   #2
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Unread 04-10-2010, 08:37 AM   #3
madronatile
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No kidding Gueuze.

You can't really see what I'm talking about regarding the TLS caps here. This picture was taken after an attempt to remove the stains. When scrubbing was attempted it sort of moved around all the staining but when it dried it reappeared, though not in exactly the same places.

So the iron is water soluble? I guess some kind of poultice is the next step. Someone else recommended petroleum jelly, seems crazy.
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Unread 04-10-2010, 09:03 AM   #4
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I think you're thinking Naval Jelly for rust removal?

Not sure if that would work for you, Seems the iron deposits are intrinsic to the stone. Thing with rust removers, too, is that they are all acidic. You might end up etching your limestone and needing to refinish.

Do not try using bleach or peroxide. They will make your problem worse if it really is iron.

You might want to try and replicate the problem on a test board and see what an "Iron Out" poultice would do. I just do not hold out much hope for totally removing the marks, since more would appear in short order if the iron is part of the stone.

Were there any other contaminants on the tiles at all? How wide-spread is the problem?
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Unread 04-10-2010, 11:41 AM   #5
doitright
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Hi Matt

I totally agree with Adriana. Many limestones are extremely moisture sensitive.

First, what product did you try removing the stains with?

I also know phosphoric & oxalic acid are effective on removing rust stains (besides the Rust Away already mentioned). Unfortunately, the stone will etch during this process. More than likely a poultice is going to be your best bet, but TESTing is in order prior to committing to any particular product or method.

I'm also concerned what's going to happen when you grout. It's possible that you may get more staining around the edges. The only way to find out for sure is to TEST.

At this point, you can do a mock up board, but honestly you don't have much to loose if you just keep working on this floor.
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Unread 02-14-2013, 12:50 AM   #6
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Matt, I know this is an old thread but, did you ever find a resolution? I have a very similar problem that I posted about a while ago. The vendor, who also owns the mine in Turkey, is trying to pass it off on water soluble alkaline and I'm not buying it. It's happened to tile I set over a mortar bed and Nuheat, tile over Hydroban and Denshield, and tile I soaked in clean water as a test.
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Unread 02-14-2013, 06:21 AM   #7
Davestone
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I believe until this problem is brought to light and people just refuse to use these stones it will be passed off so they can all get rid of the stone.

The whole alkaline argument is bogus,since there is no way to keep any stones installed anywhere from getting wet when installed with thinsets.Okay,so there is a reaction with alkalines.Did he tell you this when it was bought and give instructions for installation?No.

This has been going on for years.
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Unread 02-14-2013, 11:24 PM   #8
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This one is really frustrating. I brought the staining to the attention of the vendor immediatly after first spottiing it on the floor. I then carefully went through the tile and seperated the most pristine pieces and set some more on the walls only to get the same result. The job was then put on hold for over a month while I tested all the material and various cleaners always anticipating the vendor to provide a solution and thus being able to continue. Finally after a visit from the vendor we concluded that the majority of pieces were going to be cuts and as you can see from the previous picture I had isolated the staining to one side of the rest of the tile, so we gathered we could cut it off. Prior to starting back up I stated(not in writing) on multiple occasions that I didn't know for sure the cause of the staining and couldn't gaurentee that this was a viable solution. Being way behind schedule I bulked up and got the 300 ft master to about 80% completion. More staining

Now the HO who purchaced the material and the architect who specced the material expect a complete redo. The Vendor is offering new material and 15% of the cost of labor. I know I'm going to take a hit for a solid install and don't feel I've done anything wrong, except for not putting more in writing. Thoughts?
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Unread 02-15-2013, 06:03 AM   #9
Davestone
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If you didn't supply the material i would write that up you can't be responsible for that,and you have tried to make it right.
Add up the cost to you so far,and how much you want for doing what you've done so far,and what you want to do the redo.Give it to the homeowner as a bid,and see what happens.

This isn't your problem,and you could try to remove yourself from the situation.They want the bath done,but all involved are trying to get as many people involved and sharing financial responsibilty as they can.You could remove yourself from that.

Orr,the vendor has made his offer,make yours.Figure whatever money you need to get the job done,saving your rep. and be able to sleep at night.

We've all been through this,and i am a settler,and would do this option.
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