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Unread 02-16-2021, 10:38 PM   #31
BIGPHIL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnav
The only thing is, i struggle to see how do you waterproof around a round window?
Dan,
You might try something like 1/2" Wedi panel and making a bunch of kerf cuts 1/2 the thickness of the panel deep. You may then bend the board to the proper circumference with the cuts facing inwards. I'd be sure to have the board contacting the window frame the entire way and spread an even bead of Wedi joint sealant along the entire edge of the panel and then press that into the window frame. It may be wise to mask off the reveal you want on the window frame to avoid getting sealant on it. Wedi does recommend waterproofing the board when used in this fashion in wet areas. Depending on the width of the piece you create, you may get by with using their waterproof sealing tape in a full bed of sealant 620. If that's not wide enough, their subliner dry product could be cut to whatever width you need and adhered the same way. These techniques are outlined in the latest Wedi technical handbook on page 79 under the section "Custom designing and shaping with wedi Building Panel." I'd then pack the empty spaces with some metal lathe and fat mud.
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Unread 02-17-2021, 11:33 AM   #32
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That just made so much sense. Thx!

1. Do you see a reason why the Wedi board in the window opening can't transition to CBU on the shower walls? Effectively treating it like a big niche with the Wedi board forming the niche.

2. If so, I am assuming that you can use the Wedi sealing tape + thinset to tape the Wedi to the CBU (like you would apply a Kerdi-band).

3. Does a sealing tape even required at all in this situation? Can you just use alkali resistant tape for the seams and redgard it all overlapping the shower walls? I guess you can use use the Wedi tape and still redgard over it all.

4. Can you use the same construction method with a Kerdi panel? I think it will be easier for me to get a hold of a single Kerdi board.
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Last edited by arnav; 02-17-2021 at 11:44 AM.
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Unread 02-17-2021, 12:45 PM   #33
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1) don't see why that wouldn't work. It may be best to still cover all the open gaps with metal lathe and fat mud and just finish it even with the wall. You may then waterproof right on that.
2) you sure could. You'd need to deal with rounded edges so the tape sits flat. The Kerdi shower book shows nice details like that for waterproofing rounded benches.
3) with such a hybrid setup, your choice of waterproofing can be any such method. If using alkali resistant tape, be sure to embed it in modified mortar.
4) I have no experience with Kerdi board but it is an XPS foam board too, so I don't see why not. Do some research to see if you can find such a method used with that board. I'd still suggest re-waterproofing the entire board again such as outlined previously when using Wedi.
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Unread 03-09-2021, 04:22 PM   #34
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HOA have said that they will fix the window (fingers crossed), so waiting on that...

In the mean time, here are exhaust fans related questions.
  • This master bath is approx 150 sqf
  • a tiny portion of that is a toilet with a door and a fan that's as old as the house.
  • No other fans in this entire master bath .
  • I am planning to replace the existing fan with an 80CFM Broan roomside one (I like their modern looking grills).
  • I am planning to add a fan with a built-in light and moisture sensing directly over the shower (also Broan).
  • I know there are inline fans, but for this use case, i think a separate fan is better for its light and separate moisture control.

Questions,
  1. I would prefer to not have to deal with the HOA to approve a new duct hole. From what I have researched, I could hook the new shower fan, through a wye to the toilet duct. Right? From previous fans I have installed, they had dampers that prevents air from flowing inwards. It can further be mitigated by pleading with the Mrs. to turn on the toilet fan while showering.

  2. Lights over a shower need to be wet rated but don't need to be connected to a GFCI AFAIK. A fan over a shower does need to be connected to a GFCI. Does that mean that I can connect the Fan's light leads to the current light switch (no GFCI) while connecting only the Fan power leads to a GFCI?

Thx!
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Unread 03-10-2021, 07:28 AM   #35
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Dan,

The general rule of thumb for bathroom exhaust fans is 1 CFM for each square foot of floor.

Regardless of the fan's design the more CFM's it moves the louder it will be. So, though it won't hurt anything the 80 CFM for the toilet closet is too much, by a lot. 80 CFM's going out means that there also has to be 80 CFM coming in so you'd need to either leave the door ajar or the gap under the door needs to be large. If the available make up air isn't sufficient the fan will be even louder. Finally, though the fan may have a damper at it's outlet it won't likely seal completely when closed so it will leak some air. The one on the relatively expensive Panasonic fan I just installed sure doesn't.

The duct size for the existing fan is likely 4".

Static pressure of the duct work also comes into play; the length of the run, how many turns it takes, the type of duct (flexible, rigid smooth, etc) even the dampers all factor in to how much air can be shoved through it.

It sounds like the 2nd, new fan will will need to be at least 100 CFM. I forget what the the sizing charts say but I'm pretty sure you're not going to be jamming 180 CFM through a 4" duct, and even 150 CFM might be pushing it.

As far as the wiring goes I'd just make it simple; run the fan and light off the same GFCI drop.
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Unread 03-10-2021, 01:19 PM   #36
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Hi Dan,

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss3964spd
The duct size for the existing fan is likely 4".
3" semi-rigid almost straight up from the existing toilet fan. Probably 10' feet in total length.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss3964spd
80 CFM's going out means that there also has to be 80 CFM coming in so you'd need to either leave the door ajar or the gap under the door needs to be large.
There is a little less than 3/4" gap in the master bath's door. Not my doing. That's how the house came.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss3964spd
It sounds like the 2nd, new fan will will need to be at least 100 CFM. I forget what the the sizing charts say but I'm pretty sure you're not going to be jamming 180 CFM through a 4" duct, and even 150 CFM might be pushing it.
Knowing the size of the room is 150sqf, I was looking for fans in that range but didn't like their looks. We like the Broan and ReVent grill-less look. The largest Broan Roomside series is 110 and so is ReVent. ReVent said they are coming with a 150CFM model in 2 months. So instead of one big fan, I was looking to get the required CFM through both fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss3964spd
Regardless of the fan's design the more CFM's it moves the louder it will be. So, though it won't hurt anything the 80 CFM for the toilet closet is too much, by a lot.
So I was thinking 80CFM in the toilet + 110CFM over the shower. To your point though, a 190 CFM does seem excessive. I am revising the plan to 50CFM in the toilet + 110CFM over the shower (which I am assuming is better than 80+80 i.e. favor the shower a little more for the humidity).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss3964spd
As far as the wiring goes I'd just make it simple; run the fan and light off the same GFCI drop.
I want the fan to come on automatically independently of the light. There is a regular outlet near by that I can tap onto for constant power and just make it a GFCI outlet. The light switch wiring is a little harder to get to, but if it is important to have the Fan's light run through a GFCI as well, I'll see if I can add it somewhere downstream. Basically, in this case I'll add two GFCI outlets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss3964spd
Finally, though the fan may have a damper at it's outlet it won't likely seal completely when closed so it will leak some air. The one on the relatively expensive Panasonic fan I just installed sure doesn't.
Which means the plan to tap into the existing duct is no-go or just something to keep in mind (e.g. make sure to run both fans at the same time)?

Thanks for the help
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Unread 03-10-2021, 03:15 PM   #37
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If the existing duct is 3" I'd say it's a hard no for wye'g into it, even if such an arrangement were allowed by code.

The make up air may not be too much of a challenge, the fans will also draw from the HVAC vents. The biggest challenge is getting the air out.
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Unread 03-10-2021, 06:25 PM   #38
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Ok, thanks for confirming. So I am assuming that even an inline fan like this Panasonic will not do the trick since the issue is venting out.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Panasoni...n-Fan-1-0-Sone
Basically, we are saying a 3" duct will not vent 150CFM...

Back to the drawing board...

Thanks for the help
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Unread 03-11-2021, 07:41 AM   #39
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Using a single fan to pull air from two different locations and exhaust it through one outlet is a different scenario than using two fans to exhaust through one outlet. You use two plenums, one in each space, and the fan is located down stream of both. When the fan is on it is pulling from both. If both plenums are the same size, and so too are the ducts, the fan is going to draw more air from the plenum that has the least restriction; the one closest to the fan, unless the make up air is restricted.

Note the exhaust outlet on that Panasonic inline is 4". Anything less than that and it will not achieve its rated CFM.
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Unread 03-11-2021, 02:06 PM   #40
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Being on the opposite side of the room, I am assuming that putting a 150CFM fan over the toilet ain't going to cut it either...

So the options are really only:
1. Approve a second duct with the HOA
2. Approve with HOA replacement of current 3" duct with a larger duct and use an inline fan for both areas. Found this for example: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Fantech-...ucts-Vent-Only
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Unread 05-01-2021, 08:53 AM   #41
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To build a wooden frame within the square cinderblock window opening for the round window would you use regular KD 2x4 and ply or PT? Over time moisture can migrate from the blocks to the wood so maybe PT?
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Unread 05-01-2021, 12:31 PM   #42
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I would recommend you use KDAT, Dan, if you can find it. That's Kiln Dried After Treatment. Gives you the moisture protection without the serious shrinkage and warpage of regular treated wood.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 05-01-2021, 12:45 PM   #43
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Yes, only that it is rarer than a unicorn! OK, if I can't get Kdat I'll go with PT then. At least it only holds the window but doesn't get tiled directly
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Unread 06-19-2021, 01:12 PM   #44
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Window saga cont'd

So the HOA agreed to fix the bathroom window.

The management company showed up with the contractor and we agreed the next steps.
We agreed that the current window design is flawed. It is installed from the inside out against a round stucco mold and will always leak. As such, the window has to be replaced. I will spare you the details but there are pics of that abomination at the beginning of the thread.

They showed up a few weeks later to do the work. The boss dropped off a few workers and left. They demo'd the stucco and took the window out. I caught them just in time about to install back the original window. They showed up without a window. After a little bit of drama I halted them. The association manager stopped by and I reminded them we agreed that a new window has to be put in place. The association manager said: "But where are we going to get a new window from?" "and now there is a hole in the wall so what are we going to do?"
Turned out the contractor is a stucco person, not a window company.

In the interest of moving the project forward, I said that I will buy the window and they can install it. I even had to supply them with Ply to board up the window opening (which is how it has been for a number of weeks now).

I bought this window from HD and it is finally here: https://www.homedepot.com/p/TAFCO-WI...-P-O/203426838

Since I don't trust them to install the window, i built this frame for it myself (see pics).
The diagonal support are just screwed in for the pics. they are out now so the window frame can be screwed in.
Next time they come, assuming they are happy to use what I created, I'll install the window to the frame myself and attach it to the window with tapcons. This way the only thing they really have to do is the stucco (which is where their "expertise" lie anyway).
I know it is odd, but this is how they do windows down here (wood to cinderblocks and stucco on the outside).

sigh...
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Unread 06-19-2021, 02:37 PM   #45
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While waiting on the window, I removed the underlayment and subfloor of the shower platform. I say "platform" since it is a step higher than the rest of the bathroom's floor. It is probably going to be confusing, but I'll try and explain why the builder needed to elevate the shower and bathtub area.
  • Between each floor, there is a concrete casting (beam?) around ~2' high. I am sure there is better term for it.
  • The trusses are attached to this concrete casting and constitute the height of crawl space between each floor (there are 3 floors).
  • The shower and bathtub area is over a porch and is "outside" the main perimeter concrete casting.
  • They needed to get DWV pipes to the main area of the house.
  • So they raised the shower and bathtub area so the the pipes can go above the perimeter concrete beam.

Now, take a look at how they raised the shower and bathtub floor. Is that not the most negligent thing you have ever seen? Seriously, this has got to be a record.
The 2x6 beams are attached by a single drywall screw to the metal stud, and a single longer drywall screw to the perpendicular 2x6 so they rotate from side to side (!).
The lip of the metal stud lifted them up so they are not even touching the ply below.

The shocking thing is how poor of a job you can do and still get away with it. It is 20 years old and there were no broken tiles above whatsoever (6"x6" white porcelain tiles).

I am planning to rip it all out and replace with new 2x6. PT around the perimeter (i know... i know.. but this is how they do it down here).

I didn't find a good way (yet) to avoid notching the 2x6 beams for the pvc pipes. How much of a big issue is it?
Maybe I can have them go along the beams and move the perpendicular PVC pipe into the crawl space in the opposite side of the concrete beam.

Also, instead of using an actual p-trap, can you create a p-trap affect by putting the perpendicular pvc pipe underneath the beams? You will get a few feet of water basically always standing there.
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