Dried polymer vs. liquid additive

[Crestone Tile]

I'm wondering if anyone knows / has info regarding the ability of the more recent highly modified thinsets. Is spray dried polymer chemistry and technology catching up to liquid additives?

[Sprung831]

Matt, from anything i have ever seen, heard, or read, the dried polymer thinsets do not provide as much flexibility and bond strength as a liquid. reason being is that when mixing the dry form with a powder, you can only put a certain amount into the mixture before the reaction of the bond starts to go negative (i.e.-will not bond as strong, and will take much longer to cure). with a liquid, you are adding the latex at your discretion, and it is also creating an actual chemical bond.

if anyone has other information, i would be interested as well.

[e3]

I have been told by some of the Tech Guys from the Thin Set Co. that it makes very little difference ..Maybe ,someone from Laticrete or Custom will chime in..

[duneslider]

That's interesting Eric. I am pretty sure Gobis mentioned that the liquid polymers were much better. He did say that testing was showing the newer light weight thinsets to be better than the regular old modified stuff. However, when it comes to stickin tiles, any of those high quality thinsets are gonna have plenty of stickin going on.

I would be interested to hear what a thinset manufacturer or even Gobis had to say on the subject.

All I know is I have never mixed any bagged stuff that stuck like kerabond/keralastic, but I don't use much of the really expensive bagged stuff.

[ddmoit]

Bryan, my recollection of what Mr. Gobis said is pretty much the same as yours. I also seem to recall reading somewhere that Mr. Rothberg at Laticrete believed in the superiority of liquid additives.

I also got the impression that very few applications would require the added benefits of the liquid over dry modifieds.

So, in that regard, Eric's comment about there being very little difference stands.

There's probably enough discussion on this issue to fill a book. For starters, adhesion isn't the only measure of superiority.

[John Bridge]

When I went through the Laticrete plant in Bethany, CT, last summer, Henry Rothberg Jr. drilled into me that latex only comes in one form -- liquid. As soon as you start talking about dry polymers you're talking about something else. I just want to make that distinction and save Henry the time.

One more comment: All the major thin set manufacturers make both types of thin set. I really don't know if one is better than the other. I think if you get down to the fine science, it might be that different products fit different applications.

[Dave Gobis]

All things otherwise equal liquid will always be better than powder. That is a statement based on pure science and years of research.

[Crestone Tile]

Thanks for the replies. The reason I ask is because there's dry polymer mortars out there with shear data that exceed their liquid counterparts. I wonder about shelf life though.

I don't lnow the test numbers, but we are convinced that the "new" Laticrete 254 is some super-pookie. I think it is darn close in stickum and strength to 317/333

[gueuzeman]

Laticrete 254 is some badass poo, the question is if it is as flexible as a mix of 317 powder with 333 liquid. I'll guess not, but I'm no chemist. Different things for different applications.

I had this conversation with the Laticrete rep at the permacolor demo. I've used 1776 additive for years, why would I want to change to a product where water that can differ from house to house would replace a consistent product from a pail of additive. I can't say that the answer was convincing 'we put enough "stuff" in it to overcome water issues', but it works good, and I'll spec it over the standard grout with additive now.


gueuze