Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > The Mud Box

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 06-06-2020, 10:58 AM   #16
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 92,239
Sounds like you're gonna end up better informed than most of us who have installed such roofing, Wolfgang. That, of course, is a good thing, but it may limit your ability to select a roofer you're comfortable with.

It will certainly be helpful if you can list precisely what you want when comparing prices, but, as in all things construction, beware the low bidder. There are still corners that can be cut even when the bids might appear to be for the same product and service. But I expect you know that.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-08-2020, 04:29 PM   #17
makethatkerdistick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: North Texas
Posts: 918
I am pursuing a new approach. I identified a supplier in the Dallas area (Sheffield Metals) that has the materials I want. I will ask them for local installers that use their products. Maybe that way I could get an installer who's familiar with what I want. I've been watching their youtube channel, and they've put some amazingly useful information out. I feel drawn to their business model of information and product presentation.

And yes, CX, knowledge is a curse. Got my first bid. Price was as expected (close to $30k). That really isn't the problem. However, the actual bid was five lines and the price. No mention of the base material (Galvalume) nor even the permit responsibility. They mentioned "synthetic roofing felt" as underlayment which had me confused (either it's synthetic or it's felt, right? It can't be both, or can it?) I had asked for PVDF coating but got a quote for SMP which I told them I didn't want. No itemization of labor vs. material nor the size of the roof to be covered. Zilch. Maybe that's a common thing for roofing proposals? I don't want to go with a company that doesn't put a modicum of effort into its proposals. Not for that kind of money.

In terms of underlayment, it seems to me I should get something whose warranty matches the longevity of the roof proper? Or would you say that the old-fashioned roofing felt is sufficient? It's cheaper but heavier. It seems that Sharkskin products are mentioned in some quality installs I have encountered in my research. Their advanced product carries a 50 year warranty. Plus, they offer a compatible peel and stick membrane for sensitive areas.
__________________
Wolfgang
makethatkerdistick is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-15-2020, 10:48 AM   #18
makethatkerdistick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: North Texas
Posts: 918
Must be a busy time for roofers. Of all the eight contractors I called I only ever got one response followed by an actual quote. Not sure what to think but I wonder if this is common?

Unfortunately, the only contractor who got back to me with a quote wants to install Owens Corning ProArmor as an underlayment. I checked into it, and the installation instructions say this is only for shingle roofs. I emailed Owens Corning customer support, and they told me to absolutely NOT use this under a metal roof. Sure, I could talk the contractor into changing the underlayment to something appropriate but I am not motivated to do so. Not particularly encouraging to know that they chose the wrong product at this stage.
__________________
Wolfgang
makethatkerdistick is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-30-2020, 02:26 PM   #19
makethatkerdistick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: North Texas
Posts: 918
I am all excited. My install will begin in two weeks. Kynar finish galvalum. All as desired. Out of numerous companies, they were the ONLY one that followed through. Not that I have much of a choice.

I was provided the name of my specific installer today. I usually just briefly check public court records of people who work on my house. I wished I hadn't....
The installer has numerous alcohol-related offenses on his record. Multiple DUIs, driving with license suspended, open alcohol container, possession of marijuana etc. It's a long list. However, for the past ten years there has been nothing on his record. So, either he's drinking without causing trouble or he's detoxed for good. I don't know.

I have trust in the company and the person I've been dealing with so far. They've been reliably communicating everything, brought me samples, gave me addresses to look at their previous work. There are no negative reviews about them floating online. I think from my research that they are a reputable company.

What do you guys recommend? I think I should have at least an open conversation about this with the company's owner who's been very accessible so far. I don't want to discriminate against someone who's had trouble in the past and who is now doing ok. At the same time, I really have a concern after looking at the installer's criminal record. Alcoholism is a terrible condition, so if this man overcame it, then this is an accomplishment. However, if not, I don't want to suffer the consequences which possibly include sloppy work.
__________________
Wolfgang
makethatkerdistick is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-30-2020, 03:00 PM   #20
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 92,239
I don't think you'd be at all out of line asking the owner what he knows about the fellow's past and recent activities that might weigh upon your decision to have him work in/on your house, Wolfgang.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-23-2020, 08:17 PM   #21
makethatkerdistick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: North Texas
Posts: 918
The project has started. The installer is very good and approachable. We work out flashing details and placement of penetrations together. So far, I am very pleased. It's a slow process, though. 14 installation days. The weather right now doesn't help, so patience is of the essence. But it's already starting to look very nice.
__________________
Wolfgang
makethatkerdistick is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-23-2020, 08:29 PM   #22
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 92,239
Well, at least it's not too hot to touch the metal without gloves, Wolfgang. Glad you found you a competent contractor with whom you have a good rapport. Not all that common these days.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-23-2020, 10:05 PM   #23
makethatkerdistick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: North Texas
Posts: 918
The metal is the whitest white available in Kynar. Never gets hot (which is the purpose of this whole thing). Come next spring, I'll start enjoying that benefit.
__________________
Wolfgang
makethatkerdistick is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-24-2020, 09:40 AM   #24
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 92,239
You keep a piece of that roofing and leave it outside come August and tell me again how it doesn't get hot, Wolfgang.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-28-2020, 01:24 PM   #25
makethatkerdistick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: North Texas
Posts: 918
Simple physics, CX. I've measured the difference myself when I had painted my shingle roof with some hydrated lime. I used an infrared thermometer. Ambient was in the high 90s on a sunny summer day (can't remember the month). The painted shingles were approx. 5-10 degs. above ambient, the unpainted gray shingles were a whopping 160 deg. F.
The metal's reflectance and albedo are similar to my experiment, just the material is more durable and also has less mass. For maximum effect, the roof has to be as white as possible. A light grey, for instance, will already get somewhat hot.

The difference is between dark and white roofs is dramatic. When the pandemic is over, I'll have to invite you to an attic tour.

Only downside is that in the winter you lose a little of that heat gain through the roof. In cold climates, white roofs are certainly a less than perfect choice.
__________________
Wolfgang
makethatkerdistick is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-06-2021, 03:24 PM   #26
makethatkerdistick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: North Texas
Posts: 918
Does anyone know a competent and ethical roofer in the North Texas/DFW area and well versed in metal roofing that could be of assistance to me?


I need that person to give me a second opinion, preferably in writing, and, perhaps, if it comes to that, be willing to appear as a witness in a small claims court hearing.

I've had my new metal roof since Oct. 2020. Unfortunately, the installer has chosen a valley detail that is not in line with industry standards and that will likely give me trouble in the long run. At first, it makes for a quick clean look until you look closer and realize the problematic design of this. The installing company "designed" this detail themselves. It has no certification nor has an engineer ever looked this over.

A very kind member from this forum has already given me some excellent advice on how to proceed. Thank you to that person (you know who you are)!

I am currently building a dossier with evidence. I've already got a really good letter from an industry specialist (president of a manufacturing and distribution company for metal roofs with national reputation in the field). I've been excerpting technical literature to demonstrate the industry standard, and I have carefully documented all possible problems that this installation is facing.

For those of you who know a bit about standing seam installations, see attached my valley construction. They used an upward facing J channel on top of the valley material. They then hooked the bare cut edges into this channel. It will collect dust and debris and will remain wet for extended periods, thus causing premature corrosion. The proper way to do is to hem the panel and then hook them into a receiving cleat from above, so there is no way that anything will get caught.
It's so sad because the rest of the installation to me appears to be in line with typical installation methods.

I've also posted my problem here on this roofing forum:
https://talk.roofing.com/t/is-this-s...orrectly/26204
Attached Images
 
__________________
Wolfgang
makethatkerdistick is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-06-2021, 08:14 PM   #27
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 92,239
Wolfgang, I can't really see what they've done there, but I certainly don't like the outcome. Too much white for me to be sure I'm seeing what they actually did. You have any photos of that valley flashing before the panels were installed? Kinda looks like they folded the valley backwards on that side and were looking for a way to make it work, but I just can't imagine how that would happen. Folding the valley backwards, yes, I can do things that dumb on most any given day, but then actually installing it on your roof? No way.

And the opposite side has the J folded into the flashing correctly and the panel ends correctly folded into the J, is that correct?
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-06-2021, 10:17 PM   #28
makethatkerdistick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: North Texas
Posts: 918
Hi CX, it's kind of hard to see. It's not as catastrophic as you thought. Haha! Mine is more a problem of slow and steady failure.

They installed the flat valley pan. Then they installed a J channel profile on top of that valley pan into which they tucked the bare cut edges of the panels.

Their homespun 'special' J channel profile has an extended lip that bends slightly upward under the panels to deflect water. While that might in theory work, dirt and water will still collect inside the J channel and corrode that bare edge. Once this clogs up, then there is a risk for the valley to flood out. Some water is, by design, deflected by the J channel and thus makes its way under the panels, thus making this a partially closed system. Which is just stupid.

In my research I've also talked to the technical director of a well-known metal roof maker. That person also condemned the method, saying it will ultimately lead to edge creep before the life of the roof is up.

I attach some more pics to illustrate the point, including the drawing the installer showed me. His argument literally was that because I was "happy" at the time of installation and because I paid in full, I have no reason to demand a free redo.

The picture of the green roof is how it should have been done: folded panel edge hooked into a cleat that is on top of the panel but that you can't see after installation. That's virtually the only industry approved method for systems where there are no exposed fasteners.
Attached Images
    
__________________
Wolfgang

Last edited by makethatkerdistick; 02-06-2021 at 10:24 PM.
makethatkerdistick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Roofing fun... Muddman Professionals' Hangout 4 11-01-2009 02:31 PM
roofing tar Square pusher Professionals' Hangout 13 04-21-2009 08:26 PM
Roofing felt with tub spain29 Tile Forum/Advice Board 20 03-09-2007 07:27 PM
Roofing help. davem The Mud Box 26 09-25-2004 07:06 PM
Metal Roofing Paul D. The Mud Box 29 04-09-2003 08:02 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:25 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC