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Unread 03-03-2002, 07:35 PM   #1
william hendry
Tile Maker, Apprentice Mud Man
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
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I have a floor (5/8", maybe 3/4, ext ply over 2x10', 16 O.C., 45 sq ft)I was going to CBU before tiling, but now that I'm a "mud man" I'm reconsidering the CBU. The only thing is I can only put down 1/2" of whatever because the client wants the floor as level w/ the adjacent floor as possible. I've heard that 1" is the min for a mud underlayment for a floor. How can that be when 1/2" CBU is used all the time?

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Unread 03-03-2002, 09:16 PM   #2
Bud Cline
Tile Contractor -- Central Nebraska
 
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1/2" CBU also has fiberglass mesh embedded in it on both sides.

How about 1/2" mud at the transition then grow to one inch as quickly as practical?
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Unread 03-04-2002, 05:08 AM   #3
william hendry
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But the mud has 3/15 metal lathe in it, wouldn't that give even more tensile strength?

I'm using 12" tiles so I think you'd have to grow the bed over too long a distance.

In the TCA handbook it appears they say min 3/4" mud. Any comment on that?
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Unread 03-04-2002, 05:09 AM   #4
william hendry
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make that 3/16 metal lathe; diamond lathe at that
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Unread 03-04-2002, 11:56 AM   #5
Scooter
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Adjacent floors on a Remodel are a Pain!

Adjacent floors on a Remodel are a Pain!

Customer always wants them, and it rarely can be done correctly. If you want to rip out the floor, try using ledgers into the joists, but the floor will not be as strong.

Really want a mud bed? Use a threshold, and tell your customer that he'll get over it.
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Unread 03-04-2002, 03:18 PM   #6
william hendry
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So if I mud this floor, how would I go about keeping an expansion gap around the perimeter? I'd just as soon the mortar didn't run under the existing sheetrock anyway and cause the SR to wick water up.
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Unread 03-04-2002, 04:57 PM   #7
John Bridge
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Will,

I think you've got a hangup about this wicking business. You shouldn't have that much water in the deck mud to begin with. Don't worry about the sheetrock.

You can cut strips of corregated cardbord and tack them to the drywall
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Unread 03-04-2002, 05:35 PM   #8
Bud Cline
Tile Contractor -- Central Nebraska
 
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The sheet rock won't wick that much moisture. And if it does no harm done. It's a one time thing not an ongoing problem.
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Unread 03-04-2002, 06:20 PM   #9
Rob Z
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William

Scooter and I are on the same page on this one...the tile and substrate dictates how things will be in the project, not the other way around.

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Unread 03-05-2002, 01:37 AM   #10
william hendry
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Well, was really a secondary concern. I'm mostly wondering if I need an expansion gap around the perimeter. I'm betting I do but wanted to double check.
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Unread 03-05-2002, 08:07 AM   #11
Rob Z
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Expansion Joints

William

I do staple sill seal foam around the bottom of the walls when mudding a floor. This provides an expansion joint, and protects the wall from my straightedges when I hit the walls when screeding.
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Unread 03-05-2002, 10:43 AM   #12
Scooter
Remodeler -- Southern Cal.
 
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Backer Bead

My tile supplier has rolls of backer bead or backer rod. It is a 3" wide piece of foam (in various thicknesses) which is slit into various widths, like 1/4", 1/2", 3/4" etc, and by tearing off the appropriate width, you make an expansion joint. Using a 1" bed? Tear off the 3/4" strip and staple it to the perimeter. Top it off with some caulk.

I use the 1/4" thickness the most.
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Unread 03-05-2002, 01:21 PM   #13
william hendry
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Ah yes, that's what I was looking for. Thanks guys.
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Unread 03-07-2002, 01:05 PM   #14
Sonnie Layne
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Z

You run into walls while screeding? Gotta be tough if you're on your knees. Sorry, got too much time on my hands, waiting for things to be shipped in on three dif jobs, then you won't hear from me for weeks, arncha glad?
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Unread 03-10-2002, 10:17 PM   #15
william hendry
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So I finished my mud bed on the floor and I'm fairly sure it's OK but something happend that I need some feedback on: When I was thin-setting the tile I had to pull one of them to reset it. When I did a chunk of the bed came out with it. How big? Big enough to scare me! Probably 4" across and 1/4" deep; like a big spall. (fyi, 3/4" deep bed) Trying not to panic about the entire floor crumbling, I pulled some other tiles to see if the same thing happened; fortunately not. I also poked around on the still exposed portion of the floor and couldn't find any places that would come up. However, some areas seemed more solid than others.

Because I was mixing in a wheelbarrow, to mix enough mud for the entire floor I had to mix three separate batches. Although I was consistent with a "3 sand to one portland" recipe, I varied the water a bit between the batches. The first batch I thought might have been too wet as a bit of moisture started to float on the surface when I packed down the mortar. So the next batches I tried to make a little dryer. But I'm wondering if I went too far in the other direction because it was on a part of the floor where the dryest batch was placed that the problem occured. It was also on this area where I felt the least comfortable about how it set up. Meanwhile the part I had though was too wet set up the best. Go figure.

So, for those of you who have experienced this same part of the learning curve, do you think my "spalling" problem might have come from having mixed the mortar in that area too dry, or maybe from something else? What can you tell from the dried surface about whether the cure is good or not? And while we're at it, when you're working the mortar, how can you tell if it's too wet? Will some water start to rise to the surface on even correctly mixed mortar if you tamp it long enough?
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