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Unread 10-03-2004, 06:18 PM   #16
doitright
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Hi Mac

I just replaced a clamp on drain to install the Kerdi drain. You can get a cut off wheel for a dremel and cut from the inside of the pipe out. You need to carefully measure how high the drain riser needs to be for the Kerdi drain.

You can go over the plywood with modified thinset and the Kerdi matting. Yes, drape everything. Watch the video that comes with the drain. Everything also needs a 2" overlap, or Kerdi band for seams and open perimeter corners.

As far as the pan, not sure, but would think you need to add mud to the preslope for thickness/strength/and embed Kerdi Drain. Hopefully others will chime in here.
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Unread 10-03-2004, 06:25 PM   #17
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Mac,

I know we're getting a lot of opinions here, and I hate to make it worse, but I have an opinion, too.

I would go the Kerdi route. You don't have to remove anything on the walls or bench as Kerdi will adhere to both cement board and plywood if you use a modified thin set like Versa Bond. The only thing you'll absolutely need to change out is the drain. Can't get around that. Even with the drain change, though, you'll be way ahead of what you'd have to go through to use a PVC liner at this point. And a PVC liner will be very difficult to install around the seat.

Kerdi is a snap in these situations. You're probably looking at $250 in membrane and drain for that shower, seat and curb. It'll go all the way up to the shower head height. If you haven't done so, view the Kerdi video on the Schluter site. http://www.schluter.com
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Unread 10-03-2004, 06:54 PM   #18
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What the Johns said.

Hadn't thought about the thickness of the pre-slope. Herr Schluter wants a minimum of 1 1/4 inches under the drain flange. How much you got there?
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Unread 10-04-2004, 05:02 AM   #19
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The pre-slope can be 3/4" and thicker. Some, like JB, aim for 1" thickness, which is perfectly OK, too. There is no real recommendation for the mud thickness, but with 3/4" minimum you won't have any problems as long as the drain flange is fully supported by the mud.

You'll want to take down that vapor barrier if you're going with the Kerdi system.

Here's what an inside plastic pipe cutter looks like. It should be around $10-15 from a plumbing store - you won't find it at HD or Lowe's.
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Unread 10-04-2004, 05:27 AM   #20
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Yahoo

Hey guys
You dont know how much i appreciate your input.
Not sure if I totally under stand about the thickness of the dry deck mud for the preslope
Currently my preslope at outside perimeter of shower, is 1 1/2" thick to the top of lower flange is about 5/8". (furthess distance from center of drain to outside corner measured 42".)

1. Are you saying that i will need to add to the preslope to increase the 5/8" (at drain) thickness to 3/4".

2. install the kerdi drain,
3. then rescreed the preslope( since i raise the mud at the drain end,
4. install the kerdi wrap, walls, bench floor, everything
5. and then more mud on top for final mud bed, so that total thickness in (my case) at drain measured from subfloor to final height would be somewhere around 1 1/2 - 2" thick.
Which would mean that outside perimeter mud total thickness could be in exess of 2 3/4" to 3" thick?

i have plenty of access to the riser to the drain so cutting that off and extending it up shoudn't be a problem.

WHY take down the vapor barrier that is up on the studs?
thanks again guys, you are trully a professional group of people.
MAC
ps i will be contacting Kerdi people today.
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Last edited by skyshark; 10-04-2004 at 05:33 AM.
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Unread 10-04-2004, 05:33 AM   #21
David Taylor
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I'd take the drain out and then measure. You'll be more accurate and possibly not have to toy with anything.

After the Kerdi-drain's installed, you'll apply the Kerdi on top of the preslope (walls, bench and curb, too) and then tile is the next step. No additional mud needed, unless there's less than 5/8" mud at the drain now.

You're taking the vapor barrier down because Kerdi is a vapor barrier. You don't want a double vapor barrier.
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Unread 10-04-2004, 05:38 AM   #22
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Did you get my email Mac?
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Unread 10-04-2004, 05:47 AM   #23
skyshark
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email receipt

Yep got the email.
did research on the liquid memebrane.
looks good.
But kind of favoring the kerdi stuff though.
Dont get me wrong i appricate your input, just weighing the pros and cons.
MAC
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Unread 10-04-2004, 05:52 AM   #24
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Drain thickness

I just scarpped away some mud at drain and its 5/8" thick there, but isnt the drain for the kerdi bigger in diameter at its outside edges?
SO i would be going closer to the thicker slope might be 3/4" thick there.

Wow, no mud on top of kerdi on the floor other than the thinset to set the tile?

maybe i will need to enbed the kerdi drain and float a little bit more?

What could i add to the top of my preslope mud, Same mud mixture? will it adhere?
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Last edited by skyshark; 10-04-2004 at 05:57 AM.
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Unread 10-04-2004, 09:30 AM   #25
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That's true - the mud will be that slight bit thicker at the perimeter of the flange. Once you've set your Kerdi-drain in fresh mud (and let it dry for a while), you can use unmodified thinset to float out the little bit remaining.

Leave it overnight and then start laying Kerdi.
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Unread 10-04-2004, 07:49 PM   #26
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We're talking about the vapor barrier that is already installed behind the CBU. Leave it there.

I don't like the idea of having less than an inch of mud at the drain. If you have only 5/8 as you say, I would set the Kerdi drain about a half inch above the mud you have down and add another layer. You can bond the new mud to the existing by using thin set as the bonder.

David and I argue about the thickness at the drain all the time. He thinks he's right, and I think I'm right. But my thicker theory, even if it turns out to be overkill, is never going to crack up under the weight of some three hundred pounder using the shower. (Or two lighter people playing in the shower).

(Or two three hundred pounders playing in the shower.)
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Unread 10-04-2004, 08:50 PM   #27
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Thickness

ok YOU TWO NO DUKING IT OUT ON MY PART,
I understand both sides of the thickness issue,
even if i'm at 200 and the wife and i like to dance in the shower( you guys been peaking?).

Next question, when i contact kerdi what do i need to tell them that i want.
I know a drain for sure, will they walk me through the amount of kerdi memebrane, and kerdi wrap, what about the corner dams?
this shower measures 72" x 48 square, then the bench which is 42"long x 12 1/2" deep x 16 1/2" tall(at the seat) the knee wall is just shy of 42" high.

THis forum is fantastic.

I have stopped construction completely untill we iron out what i need to do.
I WILL not sacrafic this project to the bad h2o demons.
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Unread 10-04-2004, 09:43 PM   #28
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Ya just gotta love it!

Mac, the guy you're gonna purchase the Kerdi from is David Taylor, the same guy who's giving you the bad advice about the thickness of your mud under the drain.

But aside from that, he has done lots and lots of Kerdi showers and yes, he'll hold your hand and make sure you buy the right stuff. He is www.tile-experts.com , and that's the easiest place by far to get the materials. You can prolly listen to any advice he gives you, too.

Except about the thickness of mud at the drain.

Even Herr Schluter says it should be over an inch.

My opinion; right for a change.
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Unread 10-05-2004, 05:27 AM   #29
skyshark
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measurements

hey all and good morning
Here is the drawing with measurements.
David i guess you and i will be talking today on the tele.
I need to ahead and order what i will need.
thanks
MAC
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Unread 10-05-2004, 06:21 AM   #30
John Bridge
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I'm doing a shower right now for which David or somebody at Tile Experts sold the owner the supplies. You ought to see all the parts they sold the guy -- a couple dozen corners, twice as much Kerdi-band as needed and enough Kerdi to wrap another shower.

Kidding. I figure you need 120 square feet of membrane, a roll of Kerdi-band and the drain (which comes with a couple curb corners and a half dozen inside corners.
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