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Unread 09-25-2012, 10:04 PM   #1
JMingrone
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Jay's Kitchen Remodel

Hello all (again),

Been 6 years since i was on the site with my bath remodel. The site was enormously helpful to me back then, so i'm back with my latest project - a kitchen remodel with a heated tile floor.

Anywho....

Using Deflecto, I quickly discover my 12 foot span of 16" OC joists will not provide adequate support. So I'll put a support beam (doubled up 2 x 8 with 4 x 4 posts) approx mid span in the basement to deal with that.

But i'll be using 3" x 36" "wood-tiles" and was wondering if the L/360 rule can be used with these or if maybe a more stringent rule should be used. As luck would have it, I'm running the tile with the long dimension parallel to the joists, (to match the run of an adjacent wood floor).

Any thoughts on using these type tiles?

Thanks,

Jay
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Unread 09-25-2012, 10:22 PM   #2
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Welcome back Jay. We were all just wondering when you'd come back.

If you get your joists up to L/360, you can use your long tiles all the same.

As far as thoughts on using "wood look-a-like" tiles, make sure they're relatively flat. Lot of them are not flat. The middle of the tile is high and the ends are low. Place two tiles together with the faces touching each other and sight down the side. Look for daylight between the two. Ideally...they're nice and flat. Keep the overlap to 1/3rd the tile length at a maximum. This helps keep the lippage inherent with warped tiles to a minimum.

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Unread 09-26-2012, 06:51 AM   #3
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Thanks Tool Guy! (Just heard that Tonto joke the other day!)

So..... my subfloor is 7" wide, 3/4" tongue and groove installed diagonally across the joists (material unknown) with tongue and groove oak flooring on top of that. On top of the oak flooring is sheet goods, probably linoleum. Don't want to mess with the linoleum a) because of the extra work and b) because of the likely asbestos thing, so was thinking of installing backer board on top of the linoleum. Is this an absolute no-no?

If i have to rip it up, I'll probably take up the oak flooring too so as not to have to deal with all the scrapin' and peellin'. This will leave me with the existing 3/4" subfloor. Can backer board be installed right on top of that or do i need another layer of plywood? Is there a Deflecto program for calculating subfloor deflection?

Thanks,

Jay

Great to be back!
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Unread 09-26-2012, 06:58 AM   #4
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Jay,

The deflecto is linked in the dark blue bar above
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Unread 09-26-2012, 07:48 AM   #5
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No, Jay, there is no Deflecto for the subflooring. That's determined by long-term testing of various subflooring materials and just called out as such.

In your case you really have no choice but to remove the hardwood flooring and whatever is above it. You'd then install a minimum of half-inch exterior glue plywood over your board subfloor, fastening the plywood only to the boards, not to the joists. Given the diagonal installation of the existing subfloor, nominal 5/8ths" or thicker plywood might be a good idea.

You'll first wanna check the condition of the existing subflooring and re-fasten it to the joists as necessary.

Over the new plywood you install the tiling substrate of your choice and your tile.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-26-2012, 05:07 PM   #6
JMingrone
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Thanks CX,

You were a big help to me on my project back in '06 (Jay's Bath Remodel). Glad you're still around to help. Guess i'll be gettin' the knee pads out to strip that floor (UGH). Have several friends with cracking tile jobs and don't wanna go there.

-Jay
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Unread 09-27-2012, 08:53 AM   #7
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Floor support

After examining clearances in my basement for a support beam under my kitchen floor, looks like it'll be difficult to fit anything more than a double 2x6 (without moving steam pipes). This is probably too wimpy, so i'm considering a steel I beam. The beam will support the center of my 12 foot span of 2 x 8 joists (16" OC) to improve the deflection rating. I'll support the beam close to each end with posts down to a concrete floor. So a few questions....

1) Any idea how big of a beam to use? (is there some calculator?)
2) Do you need to put a wood plate between the I beam and Joists or can the steel beam go right up against the joists?
3) Does the beam (or wood plate) need to be secured to each joist or can it sit directly on it?
4) 4x4 wood supports wood be easiest to use. If acceptable, can they just sit on galvanized decking brackets?

Thanks,

Jay
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Unread 09-28-2012, 07:08 AM   #8
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kitchen floor support beam

Bump.

Hoping to get by with a steel beam with smaller cross-section than equivalent wood. Any idea (even roughly) ow height and width?

What's the "Jump Test" I see mentioned here and there?
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Unread 09-28-2012, 07:40 AM   #9
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Jay, your multiple 2x6 beam would be fine if you get enough supports under it.

I have no idea how to calculate for a steel I-beam. Think you'll need to have that done locally. I know of no online calculator for those beams, either.

Your 4x4 wood posts would generally be OK, but you'll need to determine if you've got sufficient footing for them. Can't see your basement floor from here.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-28-2012, 07:44 AM   #10
JMingrone
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Thanks CX, multiple 2x6's would be great!

One other thing...on top of my diagonal planked subfloor, do i need tongue and groove plywood? And what rating?
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Unread 10-23-2012, 07:28 PM   #11
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What is "trowelable leveling mortar"

I'm putting electric radiant floor heat in my kitchen and plan on using the RPM mat system. The system uses "dimpled" ABS plastic mats that you glue and staple down to the plywood underlayment (3/4" ply in my case) into which you wrap the wires. You then backfill with SLC, ending up with a 5/16" thick layer with wires inside.

The problem is I find SLC tricky to work with (especially short-handed) trying to mix /pour/spread/repeat on a tight time schedule. I also have a slight slope to the floor and don't want the stuff piling up at one end.

So the question: RPM says you can use "trowelable leveling mortar" instead of SLC, which sounds like it might be a mud you can spread out at a more leisurely pace. Anyone know what this stuff is and where I can buy it? Is it easier to use than SLC?
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Unread 10-23-2012, 10:38 PM   #12
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By the green slc bags from custom. Order it special from home depot. It gives you 30 min per bag to work with

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Unread 10-23-2012, 11:00 PM   #13
JMingrone
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So "trowelable leveling mortar" is a liquid, SLC-like product and not a "mud" that you spread, trowel-by-trowel? (like i was hoping it was)
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Unread 10-23-2012, 11:01 PM   #14
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..and what is "custom"?
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Unread 10-23-2012, 11:35 PM   #15
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Custom is the brand . .aka CBP ( Custom Building Products)
The Red bags are rapid set and the Green bags are extended time SLC
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