Master Bath remodel

[paul8028081]

Hi All,

with the help of this forum and the volunteers I have been able to completely gut my kitchen and other bathroom, and now it's on to our small Master bath. It was remodeled about 15 years ago but I know it was never done right...as noted by the fine tile work noted in the photo below (how in the heck did they cut those tiles so thin?!??!)

So my plan for the remodel is...

Shower...mold block sheetrock the room and shower, then Kerdi with a fiberglass shower pan to save myself time, money, and worry

Floor...my big problem as it's overspanned with 2x8x14 with a span of 12.5 feet with no easy access from underneath it. The bath is on the 2nd floor. Further complicated is the walk-in closet next to the bath...see diagram below.

So to figure out the floor problem I think these are my options?

1.) Don't do ceramic tile and fake it out with some nice version of vinyl plank tile over greenskin to aid in basic waterproofing...don't worry about the floor.

2.) Take out the subfloor, Get some 2x8x8's, glue/screw sister the joists to the beam...spends lots of time banging in green lumber to old lumber (not fun as I've done this before)

3.) Take out the subfloor, get some 2x6x8's, glue/screw sister the joists to the beam...

2.) Get some 2x6x14, cut out the sheetrock on the first floor below the entire area, and sister the whole thing. Not my ideal solution as this is much more time and money in sheetrock, wood, and finishing expense.

Not sure what to do, any advice is greatly appreciated!

[cx]

Welcome back, Paul.

2. Sistering with 8' joists will do nothing at all to improve your joist deflection, if that's what you're trying to accomplish.

3. See #2.

4. Without knowing what your existing joists might be, the addition of 2x6s at that span likely still won't yield the required L/360 deflection needed for ceramic tile, presuming that's what you want to install.

I think your #1 is your best choice, but not sure the Greenskin is necessary or very useful.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[paul8028081]

Thanks for all of your help CX Past and present!

Originally Posted by cx

2. Sistering with 8' joists will do nothing at all to improve your joist deflection, if that's what you're trying to accomplish.

1.) So basically if I want real tile, there's no other option other than tearing down the sheetrock below, and trying to bang in 2x8 at least 2/3's the length up against the existing 2x8x14's?

Originally Posted by cx

I think your #1 is your best choice, but not sure the Greenskin is necessary or very useful.

2.) I have enough left over greenskin from my kitchen project that I figured why not? The vinyl is a click system so I'll assume enough water might seep through if someone steps out of the shower without immediately toweling off.

3.) I am thinking the vinyl will be my best solution here, should I still bother with putting in 3/4 ply over the existing 1/2? Or should I go with 1/2 CB to make me feel better about water infiltration?

[cx]

1. Pretty much. Not sure what the banging in is about, but a fella can usually rotate a new joist into place even if he's supporting it at both ends. Some notching at the ends and a bit of shimming might be required, but I find I can nearly always roll them into place.

I do like to un-weight the center of the joists and sisters just a bit beyond flat until the adhesive between them dries.

If I had to remove the lower ceiling to do that, I do believe I'd be content with one of the newer vinyl flooring options available today.

2. OK by me.

3. I would never bother installing any kind of flooring over a single layer of half-inch subflooring, but you can if you wanna. I'd remove the subfloor and install at least a single layer of 3/4" plywood, either T&G or properly blocked at the seams.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[wwhitney]

One alternative to dropping the ceiling in the room below would be to pull up the floor in the walk-in closet. You'd have to also partially demo the wall between the master bath and the walk-in closet, as needed. Just a thought.

Cheers, Wayne

[paul8028081]

Thanks Wayne, given all of the stuff in the closets and the hardwood floor in there it would be easier to drop the sheetrock...

Nevertheless my wife okayed the vinyl plank so it will be a go. I will add 3/4 T+G on top, greenskin, and the plank vinyl tile.

I ordered some kerdi and find it interesting that both Lowes and HD carry it but not the right thinset to use with it (at least in CT). Dal-Tile near us carries a full line of Laticrete and Lowes can special order the kerabond (2 week turnaround though).

Since I plan to use a 12x24 tile what would be a good Laticrete medium bed unmodified to use?

[paul8028081]

Did some more searching, looks like the consensus here is the Laticrete 317, will post photos and updates..demo soon to come!

[paul8028081]

Tear down began today....was shocked to see CB behind the tile (was expecting sheetrock like the last bathroom), of course no waterproofing or barrier behind it. Had a rubber pan which was nailed to the curb...made of 2x4s. No mold or water damage so far though.

Most fun part was taking out the pedestal sink which was held in place with two mushroom head toggle bolts.

How people allow themselves to do such crappy work perplexes me.

Current plan is to embed the kerdi with the Laticrete 217 and use that to set the 12x24 tile. I will use the LASH leveling system (hey it's cheap!) and 1/2x1/2 trowel.

1.) Any issue we see with that?
2.) I would like to put in a small glass tile border about halfway up and around the perimeter of the shower. Knowing that glass tile really needs a different thinset than an unmodified...should I set that in something else, or since it's just a small row (about 2 inches) just use the Laticrete 217? From my reading the glass tile and kerdi manufacturer specs call for opposing thinsets.

[Houston Remodeler]

Paul,

1- no, sounds familiar

2- is the 217 white ?

[paul8028081]

Originally Posted by houstonremodeler

2- is the 217 white ?

Whoops...Laticrete 317 not 217. Yes it comes in white and gray...I'm gonna get the white.

[Houston Remodeler]

If its a small amount of glass I think you'll be ok with the 317 (which is what I thought you meant, but it's late at night)

[paul8028081]

So about to begin...

Using Laticrete 317, being that it's unmodified will I see a lot of sag using a large format tile like the 12x24? I plan on using a starter board so I guess all of the tile weight will rest on that and the plastic non-rubber spacers+LASH?

[Houston Remodeler]

The ledger and the hard spacers should keep gravity from getting the better of you

[paul8028081]

Update:

Finished the sheetrock and kerdi yesterday. I followed the instructions per schluter's installation video for the install.

It's still strange to me that the system is held in by such paper thin layer of thinset, all my research here says don't worry about how it feels on the edges and to trust years of installs.

1. Tell me not to worry about this

Next up I'm trying to figure out the layout...using the 12x24 tiles I'm having difficulty figuring it out. The manufacturer recommends a 15-30% overlap, problem is the the middle wall you see in the photo below is 46" so it will not fit two full tiles without cutting, okay not a problem, but then I'm left with a tiny sliver left over. In my past installs I would carry that tile over on the next wall to weave the pattern.

2. In my case should I just treat my three shower walls independently for the layout?
3. Should I weave the pattern but scrap the 1" leftover piece and assume people won't notice?

[paul8028081]

So I'm a little worried I squeezed out too much thinset during my Kerdi install..In the manufacturer video it shows the installer pretty much forcing most of it out with his taping knife and I did that as well, trying to get all of the lumps out and forcing it to the edge of the piece I was working on. I guess I tried to squeeze rather than embed if that makes sense.

I tried an adhesion test by hot gluing a small wood scrap and it took some of the fleece off and saw now (edit) no pillowing under the Kerdi in that spot.