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Unread 02-15-2020, 07:42 AM   #46
JamesA_84
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CX - I didn't take your response in that manner at all my friend, so absolutely no worries.

I have validated with the cbu manufacturer that directional layout isn't specified, that said it doesn't seem to matter. The panel joints are not supposed to land on joists. This is my concern with the pictures I shared as I can't think of a creative way to avoid ending my cbu sheet(s) on a joist. The wall in my hall also is directly over a joist and plywood sheet joint, not sure if that will be okay to have cbu joint over top of joist in that section as I really have no other options. Those are the couple areas I'd love to gain any pointers if you guys have any.

Dan - Yes sir. I plan to trim the door jambs once I have my cbu and tile at home so I can get an accurate cut. Plan to stack 2 of the 1/4 cbus and then one tile. I wasn't planning on removing the baseboard as I will end tile and cbu 1/8 short of baseboard, then use trim to cover the gaps.
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Unread 02-15-2020, 08:04 AM   #47
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Nothing you can do about that plywood joint and joist along the wall. You already understand the reasoning to avoid the alignment of CBU and plywood seams so do the best you can.

You will want to screw down all that ply before covering with CBU.

You're choice, of course, with the baseboard. Just keep in mind that your stack of mortar/CBU/mortar/tile will be a bit more than 3/4" (assuming 3/8" tile) the visual height of your baseboard will be reduced by that amount, and the shoe molding will visually reduce it further. If you're down with that so are we.
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Unread 03-05-2020, 06:53 PM   #48
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OK guys -- I have gotten all my previous sheet vinyl, luan and staples removed. I also have gotten the plywood boards screwed down as several nails had popped loose, etc.

So at this point, I decided to go with hardiebacker and have gotten it all cut and dry placed.

Now I am a bit torn -- need some advice before I proceed. So given the pictures I have posted of the condition of my 3/4 PS1 rated T&G plywood, I am really struggling whether to put down thinset under the hardiebacker as I am afraid it is going to seep into my plywood and cause a ton of damage -- delamination, rot, etc. as I feel like I have plywood delamination to some extent already -- just not sure. Am I overreacting here?

So I have two options:
1- Put down thinset between hardibacker and plywood. Extremely concerned about delamination.
2- Do not put down thinset and screw in hardibacker with even more screws than the pre-marked spots. Yes, I know this goes against manufacturer and removing movement and gaps.

Appreciate any advice -- going back and forth, love to have thoughts from someone that has done this before :-)
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Unread 03-05-2020, 07:41 PM   #49
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Harken back to the first line in my post #42, James.

Those CBU manufacturers don't require that extra time and labor consuming step in their instructions because it sells more product, they include it because they know if you don't use that bed of thinset mortar under their product it's much more likely to fail. And that's particularly true of Hardiebacker, with its high density and square edges.

If your plywood is an exterior glue type, the thinset mortar is not going to cause delamination. Yes, your subflooring is in poor condition in some places we see in your photos. If you are seriously concerned with the structural integrity, add a second layer of plywood. If you've decided to take a chance with what you've got, install the CBU per the manufacturer's instructions and press on. But don't cut still another corner on your installation.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-05-2020, 07:48 PM   #50
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CX - per usual, thanks for keeping me straight here. Feel like I may be overreacting and overthinking a little bit on the delamination. Engineer mind gets best of me regularly. I will plow ahead and put down the thinset as I have been planning all along. Thanks again my friend.
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Unread 03-17-2020, 07:55 PM   #51
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OK guys - I'm back with update and question.

At this point I have been able to get all thinset and backerboard down. I can say without a doubt that folks that say screws only for hardiebacker is sufficient I have to wholeheartedly disagree. I did a small test and screwed two boards down only with no thinset, then did backerboard with thinset and screws. You can tell how much more support and full coverage the backerboard with thinset underneath provides -- simply press on ANY of the edges of backerboard with just screws and you will see a slight flex, with the thinset underneath, zero flex. Enough evidence for me.

So I do have a question -- earlier today I was moving a few things back into place until I begin tiling including my fridge, kitchen table/chairs, oven, etc. When I was moving things, I must have hit a corner of two boards weirdly or something because I cracked two boards at the very corner. I have included pictures. This will be a highly walked on area -- so I am debating if I should just go forward and tile as I normally would, or if I should remove those sections of board, or what the recommendation would be. Thanks and appreciate any feedback.

-James
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Unread 03-17-2020, 08:04 PM   #52
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I'm not seeing evidence of any thinset mortar under those panels, James. Those the ones you tried without the mortar?
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Unread 03-17-2020, 08:20 PM   #53
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CX - they definitely have mortar underneath. I tried my best to clean out the 1/8 gaps so I can use the same mortar that I will be tiling with. I will go take more pictures for proof if you need them, or you could just trust me
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Unread 03-18-2020, 08:28 AM   #54
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I see a little mortar through the gaps in those panels.
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Unread 03-18-2020, 08:29 AM   #55
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If the corners don't seem to move if you pry lightly on them I'd leave them alone. They're going to get mesh tape and mortar as part of the process. If they do move you could try pulling the screws, remove piece, clean off old mortar, and try to re-set them.

Only alternative I can think of is to pull up those sheets, clean the mortar off the floor, and install new sheets.

Hardie corners are a PITA, ya really need to counter sink the holes before driving the screws.
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Unread 03-18-2020, 08:31 AM   #56
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I would drill a hole in the middle of each of those corners and set a screw into each one.
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Unread 03-20-2020, 08:45 PM   #57
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Thanks for the feedback guys!

Dan - Unfortunately, 1 of the 2 pieces is quite loose and does lift up.

Kevin - great idea with drilling a hole then setting a screw in each corner piece. I am going to give that a shot.

I will say that I have been very impressed with the hardieboard-- feel free to take this for what it is, a guy doing his first tiling job, with no prior experience to allow for comparision. I really like the toughness of the board, and it doesn't crumble at all, which is something just looking at other backerboards I noticed on most every board I saw. The downfall of the board from an install perspective is the sensitivity of the corners, they will crack very easily, so what I did was just adjust location of screws into a bit further from corners, once I did that didn't have an issue, but following the screw markers, I had no luck. Anyways, figured I would share my thoughts if any other first timer is looking at different cbus.
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Unread 03-27-2020, 07:03 AM   #58
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Alright gang --- I'm sure you guys are tired of all of my questions at this point lol

Anyhow, let me get to the point here.

1 - Unfortunately, I have a section of hardiebacker that is making a crackling sound when I walk over them. It is a total of 5 boards, each with a few spots that crackle. I did each of the 5 with the same bucket of mortar - cheap unmodifed stuff from Lowes. I have researched this one and seems like I either mixed my mortar to dry or I didn't screw down the boards quick enough.

Question 1: I did put these boards down at the same time and I did wait til all sheets were down prior to screwing them, feel like I waited to long to screw them. All sheets were screwed down ~30 minutes after putting them down in the thinset, not sure if that is considered to long or not. No issues at all with other sections of sheets. However, I did screw them down quicker I feel like.

My possible solutions:
1) add additional screws to each of those boards to try and eliminate the crackling noise -- easiest solution, and I likely live to tell about this
2) remove boards, inspect and reset and screw -- this option may be a life ender as my wife is getting tired of me taking so long

Question 2: Since I am doing this install in sections, once I get the previous sheets figured out I am going to start putting down the tile. Likely going to be done in 3-4 sections. That said, I will have the tile down without grout.

So, I am curious, what would be the best option:
1) possibly grout in sections? I plan on using sanded grout -- I'm thinking I may run into matching issues if I do this, but not sure.
2) put down cardboard on all tile until I have all tile laid and grout at the same time. I will have all all appliances removed while doing this -- once again, the wife will be less happy with this option, but I will likely remain alive.

Thanks as always guys, hopeful this will be my last question set -- however, given my track record, it's unlikely.

-James
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Unread 03-27-2020, 09:01 AM   #59
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1. With that installation method and using Hardibacker it's almost certain that your thinset mortar had the moisture sucked out of the top portion before you were able to install your mechanical fasteners. The Hardibacker is especially thirsty stuff among the CBUs and the recommendation (for all of them) is that you spread your mortar for and fasten a single panel at a time.

Removal and replacement is the only real remedy I can see for what you've got.

2. If you're using a cementitious grout, there is always a chance that two batches mixed separately will have some color discrepancy, but if you're very careful you might avoid that. That said, I'd strongly recommend you grout the entire floor in one continuous application, being careful to mix each batch exactly the same, rather than doing separate applications and allowing the grout to cure between applications.

It's always a serious consideration to allow foot traffic on newly set and not grouted tile surfaces and you'll want to allow at least 24 hours before doing so and provide substantial protection for the tiles if the traffic is to be for more than just grouting. And I would not even consider moving appliances over an ungrouted tile floor.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-27-2020, 10:12 AM   #60
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As always CX, thanks for the information. Although you are making me walk the plank.

That said, would I be able to reuse the sheets or need to replace them?

On the note that Hardie really likes water would it be wiser to mix my tile mortar thinner/wetter or just really soak the hardie with the sponge or does it matter which.
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