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Unread 10-19-2002, 05:32 PM   #1
flatfloor
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For the last week or so my machine will not turn on when I hit the start button. I have to hit the restart button 3-4 times to get it going. What's going on?
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Unread 10-19-2002, 06:03 PM   #2
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>>> have to hit the restart button 3-4 times to get it going. << You mean you hit the start button again 3-4 times or is it a reset button?

Did you try holding the button in?

If not that perhaps the switch is going bad...check the connections and or replace the switch.
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Unread 10-19-2002, 06:41 PM   #3
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Sounds logical, thanks.
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Unread 10-19-2002, 08:27 PM   #4
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Not too much too them , the switches rarely go bad but if it is not a switch or a connection or something obvious then the worst case it motherboard damage. I have never heard of software issues causing this...maybe someone else had but I would think it is diffenatly hardware failure.
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Unread 10-19-2002, 09:42 PM   #5
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Darn I hate it

when you have to fiddle and fiddle and push all the right buttons to get them to turn on.

Well, Hmmm, Maybe not!

Jim:

I've had that a time or two. Do the fans and lights come on but it just doesn't start up?

When it does start is it as normal?

If you are not making a power connection the fans won't come on. With ATX style (any of the newer boards) the power switch is connected to the board not to the power supply. The reset switch momentarily grounds out the power. Like JC says they are cheaply made but usually don't go bad.

If the fans do power up when you hit the power switch then, it's probably not the switch and you need to think about what's changed in your system.

Have you added any hardware or software lately?

Made any changes in the bios?

In some instances bad RAM menory can cause this to happen, or it could mean that your motherboard is getting a little touchy. Have to pay more attention to her! Push the right buttons!



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Unread 10-19-2002, 10:00 PM   #6
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If the fans turn on all depends on where the fans are plugged into. JT is reffering to the connection on the mainboard that has the lights/switch/and usually one fan power connection for the lower front fan only.
Fans can be plugged into other special jacks on the motherboard near the CPU as well as via ANY of the many power connections stiaght out of the power supply.Although basic store brought PC's seem to use just the front fan and a CPU fan with are off the mobo.
Isolateing wether or not the problem is in the switch and wires going to the motherboard connection or wether it is actually a damaged motherboard is what is needed..unless you were bending the mainboard or set up a Van DeGraff machine inside your box I would suspect a damaged Mobo is the least likely. The switch would be as likely as a household light switch going bad IMHO....it happens.

Of course this can be troubleshooted easily by by-passing the switch(hot wiring it). Having your mobo manual nearby would take some of the guess work out of it if you are unsure.
Chances are though with an ATX form facter mobo the switch connection is on the lower right side of the mobo if your looking from the left. There will be a connector with various small wires coming out of it and each wire should be labeled in plain english ie. switch,power led,hardrive led,fan etc... if that helps any.
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Unread 10-19-2002, 10:50 PM   #7
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Power

JC:

I believe that when you connect the power switch you are mearly telling the Mobo to tell the power supply to turn on. This would in turn cause power to flow to any fans that are within the circuit. I'm going to have to look this up to be sure, but the power switch might only be closed when depressed. Or I may be confused with the reset switch.

I've only got eight fans in my case. I think that only my front case fan and my AGP fan are powered directly off the Mobo. The rest are all powered off the rails. All the fans come on at the same time.

It would make sense that if Jim's fans are coming on, that he is completing the power on circuit.

Now I'm going to have to go look that sh@@ up!

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Unread 10-19-2002, 11:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by JC
....
Isolateing wether or not the problem is in the switch and wires going to the motherboard connection or wether it is actually a damaged motherboard is what is needed..unless you were bending the mainboard or set up a Van DeGraff machine inside your box I would suspect a damaged Mobo is the least likely. The switch would be as likely as a household light switch going bad IMHO....it happens.

Of course this can be troubleshooted easily by by-passing the switch(hot wiring it). Having your mobo manual nearby would take some of the guess work out of it if you are unsure.
Chances are though with an ATX form facter mobo the switch connection is on the lower right side of the mobo if your looking from the left. There will be a connector with various small wires coming out of it and each wire should be labeled in plain english ie. switch,power led,hardrive led,fan etc... if that helps any.
Ok, I didn't find what I was looking for (the actual ATX standard) but I did confirm what I thought I knew all along.

Shorting the switch wires may not have the desired effect.

The ATX standard specifies that the power supply always supplies a low level of current to the motherboard (mobo). Logic circuits in the mobo turn the power supply off and on.

The power switch is always powered with 5 v current. When you press in the power switch for about a second, you cause the current thru the switch to drop to zero. The mobo logic circuits sense this as a push of the switch and tell the power supply to turn ON. Thus powering the entire PC, fans hard drive, yada yada yada.

When you turn the PC off, (This varies with how you set up your bios) you either can power off by software, or by depressing the power switch again. I have my PC set so that I have to press and hold the power switch for 4 seconds to get the PC to power down. The logic circuit senses this prolonged loss of current through the switch as a signal to turn off the power.

When I'm in Windows and tell the PC to shut down, my computer turns itself off. With no need to press the power switch. The power switch is normally closed, and only opens when pushed.

The ATX mobo always has current flowing. Short circuits in the mobo wiring can cause the PC to not perform the power on command.

Hey! Dave --- How about some help here? Where can I find the ATX standard?

JIM - Did you tell us what does happen when you try to power up the PC? We may be arguing about the wrong thing.




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Unread 10-20-2002, 08:44 AM   #9
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Blah, blah, blah, blah...technical talk. You guys are making this way too hard.

Just turn off the moniter and leave the 'puter running.
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Unread 10-20-2002, 09:39 AM   #10
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I think you got a better grasp on this then I do JT. carry on.
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Unread 10-20-2002, 01:47 PM   #11
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Lights come on but I'm not sure of the fan.

At the end of August I changed from a Cannon printer to a Brothers combo Fax, printer, scanner. This started about 10 days ago.

I'll let you know tomorrow about the fan. I don't want to shut it down today in case it won't come back on, I have some nasty letters to write.

Fortunately Computer Son will be here Fri., he built it. I will be sure to let him see this thread.

Cami, Kathleen thinks your idea is excellent.

[Edited by flatfloor on 10-20-2002 at 03:56 PM]
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Unread 10-20-2002, 01:54 PM   #12
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Excellent, and so much less trouble...Just restart it once a week when it starts to get pokey...

See how easy it is to make a bunch of 'puter guys shake their heads, Kathleen! (I lost my question mark in the Diet Coke Disaster. All sentences have to be statements 'til I can get to a 'puter place )
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Unread 10-20-2002, 03:57 PM   #13
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Jim, Cami has a good idea here. Only turn it off when it needs it, and actually, if you can do a restart you might not have any trouble at all.

Cami:
Here's a little present till you can get a new keyboard.


Here's one for bigger questions.
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Unread 10-20-2002, 04:23 PM   #14
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JT: http://www.formfactors.org/developer...x/atxspecs.htm

You are pretty right about the switch, with a little of the electrical lingo crossed. . The power switch is momentary. It "shorts" the two wires when the button is pressed. One time you press it, the motherboard will signal the power supply to turn on, the next time it signals it to turn off.

I vote for leaving it on until the builder can get a look at it. Mine stays on for months at a time, usually until the power goes out longer than my little ups can handle. No need to reboot once a week with Linux Cami.

Cami, heres a supply to hold you over until you get a new keyboard ???????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Just come here and copy and paste
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Unread 10-20-2002, 05:17 PM   #15
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Thanks, JT and Dave...you're both so good to me...

Sadly, with the loss of the ? comes the loss of the /. I've been copying and pasting the [/url] from the bottom of the reply form. I think I'll survive until Tuesday.

I do think I'll make a note that two 'puter guys agreed with me today. First time for everything.

Dave, ten minutes once a week to reboot vs learning a whole new system. Hmmmmm......maybe this winter.
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