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Unread 09-05-2011, 01:49 PM   #1
JC
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Hardibacker/Mold Discussion

Lets not forget MOLD! Hardi does promote moldgrowth...That pretty little display is distilled water in an air tight vacuum..in real life I have seen the stuff turn black when exposed to moisture..It should NEVER be used in a wet area regardless of where you put the moisture barrier..sure you CAN use a membrane over top it..but WHY? Cement based CBU's are the same thickness and mold does not grow in them.

If possible get the builder to switch or at least let him know the dangers.

If not then use the plastic like the directions say and throw the tile in..mortar sets up very fast(speed set fast) over the hardi..you can make money since you can grout the same day. Im not recommending to do it but if thats the way it is..thats the way it is sometimes.
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Unread 09-05-2011, 02:47 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
Lets not forget MOLD! Hardi does promote moldgrowth..
Jim, if you're gonna make claims like that against a product you need to come up with some supporting evidence. That's a very damaging statement and not something just to be tossed out here as fact.

I've torn out old mud showers that had substantial mold problems on the back of the mud wall. Is that evidence that wall mud promotes mold growth?

If you want to argue something like that as your opinion, the Hangout is the proper venue.
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Unread 09-05-2011, 05:14 PM   #3
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I've seen mold growing on hardi also,when ripping out a ceramic tile tub surround set with thinset, over plastic moisture barrier. Never seen mold growing on durock. Of course this is an unscientific method, just personal experience and that was before I took pictures of everything.

And I thought this thread was in the pro's hangout.

I think your fine if the hardi is covered with waterproof membrane, but if you want a moisture barrier behind the board I think a traditional cbu is better.

Just my opinion.
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Unread 09-05-2011, 06:51 PM   #4
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From the James Hardi Website:
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Hardi
Mold Resistance
HardieBacker products achieve a perfect score on both industry standard mold tests. HardieBacker board scores a 0 (best possible score) on the ASTM G21 for mold resistance and a 10 (best possible score) on the ASTM D3273 test against mold growth.
Yeah, I know it's the manufacutrer's own marketing information, but unless and until we can refute the test results I don't see how any claim can be made that Hardibacker is any more prone to support mold growth than any CBU.

Now, if it gets contaminants on it from some outside source that support mold growth, you're fixin' to see mold growth if you have adequate moisture and temperature conditions, which is exactly the same condition you'll have with any CBU or mud installation.
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Unread 09-05-2011, 10:03 PM   #5
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CX, ive seen the mold with my own eyes,,just goto your own worse jobs thread and you can see plenty of cases..the black you see in the pictures is mold..it doesn't turn black in the display case..the water in the showers aint black..it aint soot behind the tile..it does not have a natural black patina..thats thars is mold. The product contains organic material...food for mold.

CX said
Quote:
Now, if it gets contaminants on it from some outside source that support mold growth, you're fixin' to see mold growth if you have adequate moisture and temperature conditions, which is exactly the same condition you'll have with any CBU or mud installation.
Mold needs three things..moisture,darkness and food..sure it can get food from outside contaminates like what you might have saw in the mud wall..but I am saying hardi IS the food as it contains cellulose ..AKA mold food..look it up

Sure it may pass some test for mold..due to coating it with MOLDBLOCKTM protection or whatever..but do ya really think that will prevent mold for any period of time?

And since when do I have to goto the hangout section to express my opinion? I can understand that we need to watch or pdq's in the shallow end. But since I have been coming to this site for over ten years (actually a whole 8 days before you joined)it has always been my impression we can speak freely about products without having to worry about manufacturers or censorship.

Maybe that has changed with all the new sponsors I dunno, but I have always liked this site because it is made up of mechanics speaking frankly about the trade and products, with John himself being the biggest proponent of free speech. If something has changed please PM me and let me know..that way I will make sure to only post threads about how great all the new products are...EOR

here ya go..wet cellulose

http://www.cdc.gov/mold/stachy.htm

Quote:
How do molds get in the indoor environment and how do they grow?

Mold spores occur in the indoor and outdoor environments. Mold spores may enter your house from the outside through open doorways, windows, and heating, ventilation, and air conditioning systems with outdoor air intakes. Spores in the air outside also attach themselves to people and animals, making clothing, shoes, bags, and pets convenient vehicles for carrying mold indoors.

When mold spores drop on places where there is excessive moisture, such as where leakage may have occurred in roofs, pipes, walls, plant pots, or where there has been flooding, they will grow. Many building materials provide suitable nutrients that encourage mold to grow. Wet cellulose materials, including paper and paper products, cardboard, ceiling tiles, wood, and wood products, are particularly conducive for the growth of some molds. Other materials such as dust, paints, wallpaper, insulation materials, drywall, carpet, fabric, and upholstery, commonly support mold growth.
Read the ingrediants in Hardi board here..

http://www.jameshardie.com/pdf/msds-...um-density.pdf

Last edited by JC; 09-05-2011 at 10:26 PM.
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Unread 09-05-2011, 10:27 PM   #6
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I've moved the mold discussion from the project thread in the Advice forum here to the Hangout.

Jim, there has never been any restriction on anyone posting their opinion on anything on this website and you know that. That does not, however, give anyone the right to make unfounded statements as matters of fact and especially not in the Advice forum where DIY visitors are more inclined to believe posted information as fact.

We've had that discussion before with you and you seem to have a good bit of trouble differentiating amongst the various forums and the need for different approaches to discussion on each. Yes, I'm more than aware that you've been a member for a long time. Perhaps that's why I keep thinking you'll somehow catch on to some of the protocol here.

Nothing has changed, but I will send you a PM.
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Unread 09-05-2011, 10:37 PM   #7
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I didn't post to the DIY advice forum..I responded to something that was listed in the deep end. Once you move a thread to the deep end it becomes the deep end..the guy was a contractor(a 30 year mudman at that!) how was I to know?

Last edited by JC; 09-06-2011 at 01:16 PM.
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Unread 09-06-2011, 05:11 AM   #8
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I would say that 98% of all my problem rip outs in showers were Hardie Board that was a mold paradise. The other 2% was drywall. I would never use that material in a wet area.
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Unread 09-06-2011, 02:02 PM   #9
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Im not very ha[ppy at all, Ive done prolly 20 tub surrounds and a couple showers with the stuff in the past.tiled directly to the board with plastic behind..as per directions...sure I use wicking protection and other measures to keep water away but that still is not a guarantee..If I new about the mold I would not have used it..it is advertised for wet areas afterall...reminds me of the greenboard issues of the 70-80's.

One tub surround I did for a contractor I got a call about 7 months later about it leaking into the basement?? Impossible I said..so I investigated and found a new faulty shower valve..the main threads were cut too deep and in between the threads it had pin holes that only sprayed when it was turned on...Anyways were the water sprayed out the side into the hardi board it was turned black and moldy..that when I stopped using the stuff.

Now if it passed testing standards yet we have folks saying it indeed does get moldy..then perhaps the product needs to be tested better to determine if this is indeed a real problem.

This is a big issue if it is indeed true. There is probably a million of these showers out there..The instructions call for tile direct installs..The box stores are selling the stuff like hotcakes. People nowadays are very mold conscious. The ramification of liabilities could be massive...or it could mean nothing.

Cx is correct I should not have made comment about it getting moldy without some serious actual testing, it is just too big of an issue to assume that the mold is actually eating the board. But if wet cellulose is known to mold and hardi list it in there data sheets..it is not a good sign..me thinks

If this stuff is mold food and the techs indeed are aware of this and thus added MOLDBLOCKTM as a quick fix, I for one will be very upset and decieved. Afterall the whole purpose of using cement board rather then greenboard is to avoid mold
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Unread 09-06-2011, 04:16 PM   #10
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I had 2 sheets of Hardi Baker and 2 sheets of Durock standing against my garage outdoors during the winter of 2007. The Durock was perfect and the Hardi Baker was full of mold. I was told that hardi baker uses 10 % paper and that would be the problem.
Right or wrong, I haven't used hardi Baker since.
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Unread 09-06-2011, 04:37 PM   #11
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Yea the 10 percent paper is called cellulose..basically pulverized wood that is already broken down some to make it easier for mold to eat. Im guessing it is the binding agent holding the sand together.
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Unread 09-06-2011, 07:29 PM   #12
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How long ago did spectralock come out? 7 years, 10? I have a sample board I made at the first demos for spectralock. That board has been propped up against my garage since then, 24/7- 365. No mold, no delamination.
Spectralock's doing fine as well.

Just sayin'....

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Unread 09-06-2011, 08:00 PM   #13
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maybe the garages are facing different directions..I dunno. Food for mold is only one thing it needs..maybe the other factors are not present. Also I don't recall seeing hardi siding and trim boards getting mold on them either. Maybe it is the sunlight and/or too dry. Not a mold expert
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Unread 09-07-2011, 01:53 AM   #14
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I use durarock or wonderboard on all walls floors that I use cbu on. My reasons have to due solely with the fact that I got tired of sponging the heck out of the stuff just to keep the mortar from flash drying.

I mean goodness how thirsty can it be?
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