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Unread 08-04-2020, 09:21 PM   #31
cx
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If I were answering for Jim I'd say, yes.

He opined that the problem could be the use of an organic adhesive back in post 9 before we knew about the buckling tiles. I figger he's just more inclined to believe that now. And he may well be correct.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 08-04-2020, 11:37 PM   #32
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What makes you say that? The buckling tile or the stuff in the drain?
When a cement based mortar breaks a bond, it becomes literally loose from the substrate. A mastic can become re-emulsified, and soft, so the tile can shift, but is still being held in position some by the suction of the mastic.

The grout will help hold the tile together to some degree, but assuming that was a cement based product rather than say a one-part, acrylic or similar that can bend before shattering, it does not appear the tile were installed with a proper material. The accumulation of crud in the drain isn't a cement-based mortar, IMHO. If you shatter a cement based thinset, it becomes more like sand particles...once it is cured, it doesn't redeposit anywhere as a solid mass.

If you were to plug the drain, fill the pan with water, and let it sit for a couple of days, you may be able to pull all of the tile off of the pan. If the adhesive was a cement based mortar, nothing would happen to it except become saturated. The strength and stability doesn't change when it becomes wet when a cement based adhesive is used. A mastic doesn't 'cure', it dries. If it gets wet enough, it returns to the state it was in the bucket on the shelf at the store. Since a shower pan is expected to get wet, that's why it is not specified for use there. On a shower wall, the surface may get wet, but gravity tends to let it wash down the outside and not sink in much, so it can work there.
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Unread 08-05-2020, 02:36 AM   #33
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Wow! That makes so much sense.Thanks so much! I left a message for the tile company that put in my shower, asking what method and materials were used when they constructed my shower. I don't think they'll even return my call. Will keep everyone updated as the madness continues to unfold.
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Unread 08-05-2020, 08:01 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Juliet
I left a message for the tile company that put in my shower, asking what method and materials were used when they constructed my shower. I don't think they'll even return my call.
Well, they may have continued to go back and forth over the oozing issue they cannot dispute the fact that the tiles are now "tenting". They will be taking that floor out.

While we're all curious to find out what caused it, you should gear up for having them properly fix it. I my mind that means requiring them to provide a detailed plan on what/how they are going to do and a materials list, and that plan/list should be approved by you and, if at all possible, the process (as well as the demolition) should be documented and photographed by you.
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Unread 08-05-2020, 08:26 AM   #35
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Should I wear my pink hard hat? Lol! You've got me feeling like a Foreman (Forewoman). Ok, so I've got my work cut out for me. Thanks for the assignment details because I haven't even thought that far ahead, so busy in the trenches fighting for what's right, it hadn't occurred to me. I appreciate it.
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Unread 08-05-2020, 09:24 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Juliet
Should I wear my pink hard hat?
I'll send you mine.

Really though, I have to imagine your confidence in their ability to do this right has been shaken, and I'd use that as additional justification for requiring the the details. Further, I'd not allow them to begin reconstruction until you have an opportunity to verify, perhaps here, that their plans/materials are suitable.

But that's just moi.
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Unread 08-05-2020, 09:49 AM   #37
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You're right...I really didn't want the same vendor to handle thIs....ZERO TRUST!!! The Builders warranty states that the remedy is decided by the Builder, and they already have in place the subcontractors they use. So the best I can do is like you advised....get detailed plans, their materials list, and take photos. I'm on it!
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Unread 09-16-2020, 07:34 AM   #38
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Update

Hello Everyone,
Its been a looooong journey! The principal engineer hired by my homeowner's insurance company determined that the quality of initial construction of the shower floor was the root cause of water stagnation at the drain. No explanation about grout/mortar washout. He believed that the hard white stuff on the shower floor was water calcification because when he looked at it under a microscope, it was crystallized. I disagreed....after checking with the Water Authority that supplies my water, I found out that the hardness is 1-1.75 grains p/gallon of water, which is extremely low for water hardness. They said if I had hard water, it would be impacting all areas in the house that use water. I also have a small area of white ashy residue thats at the base of the shower bench wall. I believe that and the hard calcified stuff is effloresence. The Builders had a company inspect with infrared to see if there was mold and moisture in the shower walls and flooring. I was told they found no excessive moisture nor any mold. I finally got the attention of the National Warranty Section of the Builder and they sent some people out here this morning. It's been a long hard battle..... they have finally agreed to replace the shower floor , but not the tile where the ashy white stuff is. What should I use to remove this stuff and keep it at bay? Also, I will have to be vigilant in maintaining the caulking at the bench so that water never makes it to daylight at the outside foundation wall. I have requested a list of materials and will be over their shoulders watching like a hawk!
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