Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 11-24-2016, 06:34 PM   #1
jaysen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 11
First time posting/build-thread: Questions w/ lots of pictures!

Since this is my first post, i'll start off with a quick introduction! The name's Jason - if you weren't able to figure that out - and I'm from sunny Southern California (IE). Stumbled across this website through Reddit, and I must say what an AWESOME resource!

I live in a home built in 2005 in your typical SoCal cookie-cutter housing tract. Back in July, and nearly 10 years in our home, we decided it was time to start doing some upgrades. We were tired of the crappy builder carpet and settled on a wood-look tile. Wife was completely against the idea, as she wanted REAL wood, however I brought her back to reality after reminding her of our 2 kids - ages 6 and 14 - and our 100lb black lab Baloo.

I hired a company to come out - friend of a friend - and installed approx. 1000 sq ft of tile all throughout our downstairs area. They did a PHENOMENAL job, and reading through some of the pro post, im sure they too would agree.

Name:  193ea0b248105a1a455af91d9b284f53.jpg
Views: 391
Size:  37.2 KB
Name:  bbc3b8d9c86448030eb636eb8e9aaebe.jpg
Views: 386
Size:  33.3 KB
Name:  bca7faf74dfadfcff4ec0a231ac59b17.jpg
Views: 407
Size:  31.4 KB

So do during the flooring install the workers asked if we ever planned on remodeling the downstairs bathroom because they would be having to tile in their within the next day or so and saw our 'generic' vanity. Truth be told I was tired of all the builder crap and was happy to see it go.

This is where the journey begins... I removed the vanity and figured I would remove the cheap 36"x36" fiberglass shower and eventually replace it with a tile shower. During the demo I realized I had roughly 4' of dead space behind it due to the stair landing. I had never consider extending our shower any, but I couldn't live with myself knowing I left all the space behind while I struggled to bathe in my tiny 3x3' shower. /exaggeration

Name:  3c1fc686c2c66fb43fc46ed5ece169ff.jpg
Views: 386
Size:  31.9 KB
Name:  df453518fb0e6ef9abaacf459867bcf6.jpg
Views: 377
Size:  31.5 KB
Name:  8d8bf7b996aef8a6ae90e6d71433ff20.jpg
Views: 387
Size:  47.0 KB

So without the wife's approval, I framed out the shower and added roughly an extra 3'. The new dimensions are now 40" x 67" Halfway through the framing, I decided on a curbless design because why not? I had to move the drain anyway. Go BIG or go home, right?

Now, I should tell all of you that this whole process up to this point has taken me about 2.5 months to complete. The demo was done in a day for the tile guys, but everything else was done when I had an hour or two to spare. I have a very demanding job working 10 hrs days, two kids that play travel baseball/softball in which I am a coach of one of the teams, and a full-time student! Needless to say, I don't have much free time.

Name:  da28b0ece268db79faa9c23f9276efd3.jpg
Views: 387
Size:  62.7 KB

Fast forward, we had a pre-planned vacation to Australia - which was awesome - and work/sports really picked up. It's been roughly 5 months and the restroom is still not complete. I have never tiled and have a desire to learn but time is my biggest constraint. Oh, and money. I caved and decided to call another friend of a friend to see what he would charge to finish the shower. He quoted me $2500 but couldn't start for a few weeks due to prior obligations. Last week he told me work is not slowing down and his full-time job (working for a contractor) has him working every weekend until the new year. This might've been a blessing in disguise!

I've never tiled, or created a mud pan, but I am extremely handy and would love to learn. We are on a break from baseball so my week nights/weekends will be free.

Here is the tile we've selected, and the pattern we tentatively decided on (see question 4 if we should change?)

Name:  8f2db058d88f37cc91d8b79d8522168d.jpg
Views: 368
Size:  28.9 KB

IF you had the courage to continue reading up to this point, I thank you for sticking with me - here are my question;


1) Zero entry mud pan; There is currently a 1 1/2" lip of concrete from the exposed framing. Do I need to chip away more for the proper slope? or will the 1/2" of flat ground be ok? - 1/2" is what I estimate would be left after whichever waterproofing I decide on + tile (see pic)
Name:  1464c5ef2ae78785ef0c593887131fec.jpg
Views: 379
Size:  66.9 KB

2) Waterproofing suggestions for walls - something easy for a noob like myself? Free float? Wedi/Kerdi board? or Hardi?

3) Flooring; I would like to keep the existing floor running into the shower but I know this might pose a challenge due to the type of tile - wood planks 6x24" - How would you suggest the cuts be made to accommodate proper slope? If it helps any the drain is directly underneath the shower head which is about 15 1/2" away from the back wall.

If this might be too difficult, do you suggest me moving it more towards the center of the entire shower?
Name:  8c41fcc9c2806fda393591f84f423442.jpg
Views: 382
Size:  33.4 KB

4) The two long walls will have the glass subway tiles running vertically with the accent wall (shower head wall) with the chevrons. The niche might be too difficult to to the inside so I am not opposed to placing the subway tiles inside. Thoughts?

Last edited by jgleason; 11-25-2016 at 06:46 PM.
jaysen is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 11-24-2016, 06:42 PM   #2
jaysen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 11
sorry all, apparently I can't have links in my post yet?
jaysen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-24-2016, 07:03 PM   #3
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 22,708
It's an anti-spam measure. But you can post when you get to three posts. Link away...
__________________
Tonto Goldstein... but my friends call me Bubba

Help an awesome summer camp!
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-24-2016, 07:57 PM   #4
rmckee84
Registered User
 
rmckee84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 3,016
1. You'll have to sit down and figure out what you have to work with, if that concrete height is where you need to end up to plane out with the existing floor odds are you can leave it. I see your pics but it's one of those things that is hard for me to judge without actually being there.

2. If budget allows I would go with Wedi, next would be schluter, last would be hardi. Wedi and schluter are both very user friendly but Wedi is a little easier and offers time savings since seams and penetrations are treated with their sealant rather than the Kerdi band. Whatever you chose stick with one system.

3. If it was my shower I would like to see the tile turned so it's perpendicular to existing then have a single slope pan draining to a line drain at the end of the shower. If you're wanting to keep running them the same direction and use a pan with a 4 way slope I would say to center the drain lay the tiles out and mark corner to corner forming an X. Then cut the tiles along the lines so you will be able to lay them and maintain the slope without having major lippage. Like I said though it wouldn't be my first choice. Others may have better ideas for you.

4. Where there's a will there's a way, one trick would be to mount the mosaic on an 1/8" sheet of Wedi/kerdiboard let the thinset dry, cut it to size on the wet saw board and all. Then essentially you turned your mosaic into a single tile made to fit inside the niche with using wedges spacers or working in a tight space. You can even grout it before setting if you like.
__________________
Jack of most trades, master of none...
Ryan McKee
McKee Construction & Custom Tile
rmckee84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-26-2016, 11:52 PM   #5
jaysen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 11
Ryan, thanks for the reply!

So I *think* I'm set on using a wedi system with a (wedi) linear drain as you suggested, however it looks like I may need more work on my slab.

Correct me if I am wrong - anyone who has used a wedi or prefab'd pan - I'll need to cut my concrete a little closer to my sill plate, if not flush? It seems as I might have left to much of a lip. Currently there is 1 7/16" lip of concrete.

I am not certain on the thickness of the wedi building board, but I imagine 5/8 or 3/4" (or close to it) is what I would end up using for the walls.

Any ideas on how to chip away at the concrete to get closer to framing? OR am I overlooking the obvious and missing something?
jaysen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-27-2016, 11:08 AM   #6
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
Registered Muser
 
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Posts: 7,020
If you want to go with a center drain, either round or square, you can leave the concrete ledge in around the perimeter. You can probably still do a Wedi foam pan and cut it so it fits inside the concrete edge. If you want to do a linear drain, either center or at the back end of the shower, then you'll have to cut out the concrete ledge.

I'm all for diy'ers using foam pans but in your case I think doing a custom mud pack would be easier and solve more problems.

Usually drywall is 1/2 inch so if you want to match up with existing drywall you'll probably want 1/2 inch tile backer board.
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-27-2016, 11:23 AM   #7
jaysen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 11
Tiger,
Thanks for the advice... My question with a mud pack, how would I compensate for my plank tiles running the same direction as my floor, OR would I turn perpendicular ?





Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
__________________
Jaysen
jaysen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-27-2016, 11:32 AM   #8
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
Registered Muser
 
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Posts: 7,020
If you do a linear drain then you would just slope it in one direction towards the drain. Obviously there would be a break at the entrance.

Name:  Seattle modern wood plank tile floor shower.jpg
Views: 347
Size:  48.7 KB
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-02-2016, 10:56 AM   #9
jaysen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 11
PROGRESS or REGRESS?

Ok, so this was rather unexpected and any advice is needed before we get too far!?

After my last posting, we had some friends over for Thanksgiving when one of my buddies recommended "someone who does good tile work" to finish the bathroom. I asked about his qualifications and was told that every bathroom he's seen has been amazing! Yes, my fault... should've dug deeper. Wife overheard the conversation and was enthusiastic about getting the bathroom done! Fast forward adding a couple of drinks and an exchange of text messages - he was set to come out Monday to check it out and start.

Monday comes and we meet I get a decent feeling from him and he agrees to start that day. He was charging me by day because of our mutual friend ($200) and I agreed to add some drywall work into the mix.

So I bought what I had to, and let him be. My week has been pretty hectic so I didn't spend a whole lot of time supervising. Concrete was poured yesterday and I came home to this;

Name:  0c79504493a614af812473cccc2b7c09.jpg
Views: 419
Size:  27.3 KB

I am not sure if I am over reacting because of all the horror stories I've read on these forums or if its my spidey senses telling me there is something up. This is his "pre-slope" Concrete was used due to having originally cut up the slab to move the drain and drop it for the zero entry. It seems to me the concrete pre-slope doesn't leave a lot of room for a liner and mud bed.

ALSO, he did not fill the concrete all the way to the shower drain base. he also added some cardboard around it - his explanation was that the concrete was heavy and he did not want to crush it (i'm paraphrasing).

Should I be worried, or relax and let him work? Also, I asked about the liner.. once the preslope has dried he will be removing the wonderboard and installing the liner behind it.

Last edited by jgleason; 12-02-2016 at 12:01 PM.
jaysen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-02-2016, 05:41 PM   #10
Autoplay
Tile Setter
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Sarasota FL
Posts: 1,835
Why would a person put up/install CBU,only to remove it and re-install it??

What's installers solution,regarding the concrete footing around the perimeter?

If a walk-in shower,how does the installer plan on WPing at the drain,along with the out floor,of the bathroom??

From the one pic,and what you stated...I would be very concerned/worried!
__________________
Rich
Autoplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-03-2016, 10:36 AM   #11
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
Registered Muser
 
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Posts: 7,020
Can you take a closer photo of the drain? Who installed the drain and what kind of drain is it?

I wouldn't let him go one step further until he explains his waterproofing process.
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-03-2016, 10:48 AM   #12
jaysen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 11
Name:  5a52c2f0beb56f4c127365990d8cb607.jpg
Views: 266
Size:  30.9 KB

Name:  b5d88f74dabc5cedf574d5e8666f0fa2.jpg
Views: 248
Size:  32.5 KB

He said he'll place the liner on top and then his final bed on top of that. Once done, red guard floors and walls.

I'm strongly contemplating call him tonight to pickup the rest of his tools. Ugh

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

Last edited by jgleason; 12-03-2016 at 12:38 PM.
jaysen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-03-2016, 11:25 AM   #13
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
Registered Muser
 
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Posts: 7,020
There's a way to waterproof it correctly from where you're at but I was 99% certain that he wasn't going to do it. You've just confirmed this.

If he's going to do a liner with mud bed on top the liner needs to go on before the cement board because you have to run the liner up the walls. Also the concrete ledge needs to be chipped out if he wants to do this method.

The other issue is how the transition from the liner to bath floor is going to be waterproofed. There's no good way of doing it in a curbless shower.

It's your call but I wouldn't have him continue.
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-03-2016, 11:29 AM   #14
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
Registered Muser
 
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Posts: 7,020
The best way to waterproof a curbless shower is with a surface membrane. This way the membrane can cover the shower/bath floor transition. Here's an example of what this looks like.

Name:  curbless valueseal shower.jpg
Views: 251
Size:  24.3 KB
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-03-2016, 11:32 AM   #15
ZZZK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 426
There is a way to do a curbless shower with a liner but it's tricky. Check out http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...d.php?t=106941 and see the comments by CX.

I would highly recommend you switch your shower design to make use of a direct bonded tileable membrane that extends past the shower threshold along with a compatible linear drain.

*EDIT* Exactly like what Tiger is posting above. Notice how far the membrane extends past the threshold.
__________________
John
ZZZK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
General Questions w/ Pics on 1st Time Shower Pan Build/Install amodoko Tile Forum/Advice Board 112 12-08-2019 02:38 PM
First time post, lots of questions - total bathroom rebuild jayd4wg Tile Forum/Advice Board 4 07-20-2010 08:08 PM
Having #&*#! posting pictures dwhite1031 Tile Forum/Advice Board 8 09-18-2006 09:42 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:32 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC