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Unread 07-15-2008, 07:20 PM   #1
jrc413
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re-do shower

Hope someone can help! new here & taking on another 'weekender' project thats becoming a several weekend project. I have experience with floor tile work, but not a shower. Decided to re-do a tile shower (floor & walls) on a concrete slab on a recently bought home(3'x5' shower). Thought it would be easy to remove the old tile and install the new tile. like most projects, I was wrong! once I started to remove the old wall tile...the wall board was crumbling beneath, so I removed all tile & wallboard. The vertical metal studs behind wallboard are rusted from 2"-18" around the entire shower Then the floor tiles (which had no grout remaining when I moved in) were difficult to remove so I removed the tile & had to take the concrete shower pan underneath down to the concrete slab. There was a curb that crumbled as well. Now that I am down to the original concrete, I have a fresh start. Do I need to rebuild the curb? There will be about a 3-4" step down without the curb anyhow. With a flat concrete slab there, do I have to pour a sloped shower pan, then a liner, then another concrete slope to the center drain? I plan on using concrete backboard for the walls, but not replacing the rusted studs since there are only sections that are bad...is that a mistake? Thanks...Jay - Florida
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Unread 07-15-2008, 07:46 PM   #2
ddmoit
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Welcome to the forum, Jay.

The good news is that you haven't done anything that didn't need to be done. It's best to totally rebuild a shower, once it fails.

You don't need a curb so long as your step down is 2" above the drain.

You definitely want a preslope under the liner if you intend to build a traditional pan. You might consider the Kerdi system as well.

If you build your shower correctly, those metal studs should not get wet again. I would be uncomfortable with ones that have already started rusting though. That's a judgment call for you to make.

Please visit the shower construction thread in the Liberry. Come right back to this thread with any questions. It gets bumped to the top of the queue with every new post.
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Unread 07-15-2008, 07:58 PM   #3
tilelayer
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i was taught not to use metal in the shower its too flimsy we used to sister all the metal studs with 2x4s made from wood to make it stronger but im not a framer im a tile setter so im not sure if this is necessary
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Unread 07-16-2008, 05:17 AM   #4
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Dan has you on the right track. It does sounds as though you were having a total failure in the shower so you were correct to tear out the whole thing.

I don't think there is a problem with metal studs in the shower anymore than wood. They will both fail in one way or another if they get wet. The thing is to make sure that doesn't happen. I would repair/replace/sister the rusting studs. It doesn't hurt to be certain on something like that.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 05:25 AM   #5
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thanks for the help. it does make sense to fix the studs
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Unread 07-18-2008, 05:59 AM   #6
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If you want to stick with metal studs, use 20 gauge, and you'll be fine. Presuming there is not a legitimate requirement for steel studs, wood is fine too. It can be hard to find wood studs as straight and true as the steel ones though.
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Unread 08-12-2008, 02:22 PM   #7
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shower project

I finally have my old bathroom shower tile walls & floor out & need to create a shower pan. floor cement base was completely removed also. i live in S.Florida & home is on a concrete slab. Should I use a shower pan membrane or is the roll on 'redgard' from home depot sufficient? There was no membrane present when the flooring was removed. However there seemed to be 2 layers of concrete with something between them, but definitely wasnt a solid sheet membrane. I think it may have been a roll on waterproofing. house is 14 years old. thanks. jay
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Unread 08-12-2008, 02:30 PM   #8
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Jay, the problem with a roll on membrane is that there isn't a good way to tie the membrane into the drain fitting to acheive a good seal. Being in Fla, you probably don't have a preslope or a drain fitting with weepholes. Those showers typically leak into the soil beneath the slab. That may not be a mold problem, but it may give termites just the invitation they need to invade your house.

Dig down into the layers until you expose the drain fitting, then tell us what you find.
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Unread 08-12-2008, 02:38 PM   #9
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thanks for teh help. the drain pipe is a 2" pvc that goes straight down into the ground. the previous drain had no weep holes and actually wasnt even bonded to the drain pipe. it just slid over it. I was planning on using an Oatey drain with weep holes that's designed for membranes but it is larger & rises higher above the base than the previous drain. Im assuming if I use this drain, I'd have to build up the base about 3" to meet the weep holes. the shower is a step down design, so even with the higher drain, it is at least 3" below the main flooring. i'm now also wondering if this type of drain is necessary since its nothing like the previous one.
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Unread 08-12-2008, 02:54 PM   #10
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Welcome, Jay. Please go to the UserCP above, find Edit Signature and enter that first name there so it will appear in each post and we won't hafta search for it, eh?

I've combined your threads for this shower here. Please bookmark this one and use it for all your project questions so we have a history and can see what's been previously asked and answered.

You can cut the drain riser pipe to any length you need to accommodate your new drain. And yes, you must have a clamping drain for the shower pan unless you elect to use the Kerdi system and the proprietary Schluter drain.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 08-12-2008, 03:18 PM   #11
ceramictec
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beside doing the Schluter drain with the Kerdi waterproofing which is a great system.

you could do RedGard on the preslope with the clamping drain, and then do your top final slope.
did lots of these here in Fla since its better then nothing as you had previously.
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Unread 08-12-2008, 07:04 PM   #12
jrc413
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So much talk about the Kerdi system...I'm considering looking into it. Is it something that can fit any shape shower? This one is approx 2.5'x6' step down shower with no curb.
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Unread 08-12-2008, 07:41 PM   #13
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Please see post #10, Jay.

Any shape, any size. You dream it up, you can Kerdi it. Good system.

I especially like it in the dropped showers with no curb and no door in SOG construction, which I tend to favor when I'm building. You can just kerdi right out onto the slab in the room a foot or two or three and tile over that and everything is waterproof what needs to be. No chippin', no muddin', no nothin'. Just thinset the membrane over the edge and out the door.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 08-12-2008, 07:43 PM   #14
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Kerdi works on any shape at all, Jay. The Styrofoam slope trays are somewhat limited in their application, but they're totally unnecessary if you do your own mud pan.
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