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Unread 05-19-2006, 03:59 PM   #1
Amish
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subfloor & underlayment for kitchen project

Ok, Newbie here and I want to first thank everyone, becuase I have been searching ad reading for probably 20 hours now. I'm working on tiling my kitchen and I need hel on the underlayment. Here's what I got:
1. 2x10 SPF Joists, 16" o.c., 12' span. (426 on Deflecto using unknown good wood).
2. 3/4" T&G Plywood glued and nailed.
3. 1/4" of what I believe is luan.
4. glued sheet vinyl (not the padded kind).
I'll be using 12x12 porcelain tiles.

I bought 22 sheets of 1/2" wonderboard thinking I was going to thinset and screw it on top of the vinyl, and then lay the tile. But after spending all last night on this forum, I am rethinking it and I am also very confused. Wonderboard says I can lay over vinyl, but I see where many of you recommend against it. What's the real deal?

If I need to take up the vinyl and luan taking me down to the 3/4" T&G Ply, what do I do next? Can I lay the 1/2" Wonderboard directly on my subfloor? Or do you recommend I do something else? I really don't feel like returning the Wonderboard, but if I must, I must.

One more thing, if I end up pulling the luan, it may be run under my cabinets which I am not taking up. So are there any tricks to cutting the luan at the toe kick?

Thanks to all who read and reply. I know there are many threads like this, but I couldn't find one that matched to my specs, so please forgive me.

Brent
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Unread 05-19-2006, 04:53 PM   #2
muskymike
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Hi Brent, welcome! If it was me I would tear the vinyl and luan out. You can use a utility knife to cut it under the toe kicks. You can then thinset the Hardi to the ply and roofing nail or screw it down.
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Unread 05-19-2006, 05:13 PM   #3
Amish
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Thanks Mike. That will actually save me a little height too, which is how I found this site to begin with (looking for threshold transition ideas).

I saw a lot of talk about putting 1/2" ply over the 3/4" subfloor for extra ridgity, but that's going to give me close to a 1" transition to the adjoining rooms. So 1/2" Wonderboard over the 3/4" ply is fine given my joist situation, right?

Thanks again, this site will save my floor, and maybe even my marriage!

Brent
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Unread 05-19-2006, 06:10 PM   #4
bathroomremodeler
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Brent,

If the defecto shows it's fine, then you can use 1/4 or 1/2 concrete board.

Remember, the concrete board is not meant to strenghten the flooring, just to give a good bond to the thinset/tile.

Dean
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Unread 05-21-2006, 01:35 PM   #5
Amish
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Staggered Pattern Decision

Thanks again for the underlayment help. I'm looking to go with a staggered pattern, and I need to decide which direction the solid grout line will run. I have a funny split room, so I am attaching a picture to help describe it.

While laying some tiles as a dry run to check the patterns, I'm leaning towards having the long grout run, run the whole length between the kitchen and dinette. This will leave me with only 3 grout lines that run from both sides of the split. Yes, they will be long, but here's why I'm leaning that way. It appears that each side of the split looks a little wider when set this way. Does this make sense? It seems smart to run the long line with the short dimension, which is true if I look at each room separate, but not true when I take the transition between the counter into account.

And, if I do run it with the long line running the whole length of the split, where would you recommend a starting point? I'm concerned most with that long line running straight between the split, so would it be to crazy to run a whole strip and go from there? I think I'm over thinking this since it's my first time. Thanks!
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Unread 05-21-2006, 01:41 PM   #6
John Bridge
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Hi Brent, Welcome aboard.

I try to figure out where people will most often be standing or sitting. I don't want them peering down the long lines if it can be avoided. Better to have them looking at the brick joints.
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Unread 05-22-2006, 04:12 PM   #7
Amish
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On to Thin Set

Thanks John. With that in mind I'll go with my preference since those red lines in the pic are the thresholds into other rooms. And those two at the top are wide open arches into the formal front of the house.

Now I'm jumbled up on the thinset. After reading and re-reading, and with what is available to me (Laticrete prods), I've decided on the following:
317 & H20 between the ply and cbu.
317 + 333 between the cbu and tile.
And for 1/4" grout, 1500 series + 1776 admix.

Does anyone see any problems with this? I was getting really confused with the 253 mortar, but it seems most of you prefer the 317. Is this because 253 is already modifed?

And if I add the 1776 admix to the grout, do I still need to seal the grout?

Last question (for today anyways): Should I use a specific caulk at the expansion joints (like latasil) or will a typical latex caulk work?

Thanks again, you guys are really saving me!

Brent
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Unread 05-22-2006, 05:00 PM   #8
John Bridge
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Brent,

Many companies make sanded caulking in most of the popular grout colors. Any one of them that you can get that matches your grout is the one to go with.

I don't use Laticrete products often, only because I don't have ready access to them down here in Southeastern Texas. They are excellent products, however, and the company has been around forever. Ask a Laticrete rep how to proceed. As to adding latex to the grout, I don't do it -- I think the grout is modified already, maybe not -- but in any case, I would still recommend sealing it. Latex or polymer additives are not quite the same as sealers.

Now, get to work, amigo!
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