Removing tile set with "pre-mixed thinset" from concrete slab floor

[GHR]

Hi all,

I have a new project or rather I'm redoing an old project... again.

Back in 2001 I tiled our downstair 1/2 bath using "pre-mixed" thinset.

I now want to remove the tile and I'm having a bear of a time doing so.

At the time I laid this tile I had no idea what the difference was between the powdered stuff and the bucket except it was cheaper since I didn't need to buy a mixing paddle and a new drill. After using it though I vowed never to use it again since it was so messy and went to powdered thinset thereafter.
(As you may remember I didn't do so well with that either since I ended up pulling all the tile I set with that too due to too wide grout joints that let the grout get too dirty and bad sealer.)

In the meantime I left that floor in place and grouted in white!!
That's the reason I want to remove it; the white grout turned brown/orange from an overflowed toilet and the sealer I used wasn't worth pi$$ so it didn't work and the grout is ruined and has been for a while. I cannot remove the grout to try and regrout. I must have damp-cured this grout too well since it's harder than granite and I chipped tiles instead of removing grout. The floor has to come out; there's no going back now.

Tonight I attempted to pull a few tiles hoping they'd pop loose. No such luck.
The threshhold made of marble and set with the too old thinset popped loose, but the tiles broke and shattered instead of coming up clean. Then I had to chip them out bit by bit. It took over an hour for three tiles. The thinset seems to have stuck to the floor not the tiles, but they still keep shearing instead of popping loose.

I also discovered I must have used self leveling compound under the "premixed" stuff which is making my life harder still to remove the tiles.
The tool I've been trying to use is to get under the tile and lift them. The SLC on the floor is causing the thinset to shear, but making the tile break too.
What's worst is that two of the three tiles I pulled had next to no thinset attached to them. All of it was stuck to the floor only, but the tiles broke due to uneven shearing.

Any advice to remove these tiles without just busting them out with a sledge?
The floor is concrete slab of some kind of super hard, high PSI concrete.

I cannot afford to rent any tools which I supposed would be the best way? Electric demo hammer I guess. Any advice will be appreciated.

Thank you,

Henry

[muskymike]

Hi Henry, you could try a sharp chisel and a hammer if you don't want to rent a demo hammer.
Don't fergit to wear some eye protection and some gloves.

[GHR]

What sort of chisel did you have in mind?

I've been using a chisel of sorts. It's steel and has an angle to it. It has a metal "button" on the handle that is threaded; it allows me to strike it with a hammer and not break the handle. I'm not sure what it really was supposed to be for, but it worked well in the past to remove tiles.

If you'll recall my other thread where I removed tiles in my living room, I was able to pop them free due to the bad thinset I'd used just by getting one side or the other up. This is the same tool I used in that case but it's not working. This premixed $hit is stuck a lot better than that bad versabond was.

I have a 4" brick chisel and and pointed "star" chisel I think it's called. The brick chisel though has gone to points unknown within my home. I've been 'orginizing' and in the process misplaced the @$#@$ thing.

I wish I could get something under the edges of the tile that reciprocated side-to-side to break the bond and let me lift the tile up cleanly. I hate the idea of destroying 25 tiles that I now have to repurchase. Money is tight as always and I had hoped to reuse these. Best laid plans though.

[Kman]

It's doubtful that you'll be able to re-use the tile. It's rare that they come off all in one piece without some damage from the shock of hitting them.

Here's what I use when I want a good workout:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...472&lpage=none

I have a demo hammer for large jobs, or when I'm just lazy.

[GHR]

I have removed tiles with success in two different rooms. In a bathroom with CBU upstairs and on the same floor as this bathroom where the thinset was not properly adhered to the floor. In the bathroom I got about 90% of them up with no problem and minimal damage due to old thinset having been used to lay them. I had to grind the thinset off the back of them, but they were usable and now reside on the floor again with new tiles as well.

The downstairs floor tile were a bit more for breakage. I pulled about 450-500tiles and broke probably 200 of them (~40% or so). The ones I pulled I had to "condition" to get the thinset and grout off of them. They are useable, but I have a problem of coming up short obviously. I have 15 boxes of the same lot unopened but I'm about 50 tiles short of the amount I had before. I have to end up tiling somewhere with different tiles.

The problem between those other times and this is that I used mastic on this floor as it was the first tile I'd ever laid. The mastic is much harder to remove than the thinset was and I now think you're right. I'm going to end up losing about >90% of the tiles and so I'm going to have to redo all of it.
Once I found they weren't lifting I realised that though. I hate the idea of it.

I have to get one of those chisels. Are they sharp? I ask because when I pulled those tiles upstairs I had some problems with the chisel skipping over the top of the mortar instead of through it from the thinset getting smoothed out on top and nowhere for the chisel to "bite" into. That chisel you linked to though is straight so perhaps it won't have that problem.

[natedogg]

do you own an air compressor?

[Houston Remodeler]

I have a 110v Hilti hand held jackhammer with a 4 inch blade. Worth every penny. You can rent one and MAN are they FUN to use. Wear goggles though.

[Houston Remodeler]

Do you have enough height to be able to tile over the existing tile?

[Kman]

The chisel comes pretty sharp, although it can get dulled after a couple of hours work. If you have a grinder you can sharpen it easily.

This is probably not what you want to hear, but you will be well ahead of the game if you are able to beg, borrow, or steal some type of demo hammer or air chisel. (Okay, don't really steal one, we don't condone that )

If you have a compressor, you can hook up a pneumatic chisel that works pretty well, or you can rent/borrow a demo hammer and probably be done with the whole job in less than one day.

The manual chisel will work, but it will take you much longer and you'll be completely worn out when it's finally finished.

I'm also thinking maybe a good scraper with a razor blade might take that mastic off if the chisel skips over it. Kind of a trial and error sort of thing.

[GHR]

Originally Posted by natedog

do you own an air compressor?

No. I need one though since I spend a small fortune on compressed air when I clean my computer.

Originally Posted by CabotAndRowe.com

I have a 110v Hilti hand held jackhammer with a 4 inch blade. Worth every penny. You can rent one and MAN are they FUN to use. Wear goggles though.

I can't afford to rent or buy one of those. This is my mother's home and she's footing the bill. She has little money for more than me laying tile. This demo work was unexpected in this manner or I would have done this at some other time. My funds are also limited. I guess I'm stuck doing it the hard way. And no, there's not enough height to tile over top either. For one thing the toilet flange would have to also increased to compensate and it's a leaded-on cast iron deal. I've done that kind of work with a neighbor's flange that broke and it's the pits since I cannot change the flange to one that's bolted down. As I mentioned in my first post the slab is some kind of high PSI concrete with gigantic rocks in the mix. From prior experience it's near impossible to drill into even with a good hammerdrill and therefore I'd be unable to secure a new flange.

Originally Posted by Kman

The chisel comes pretty sharp, although it can get dulled after a couple of hours work. If you have a grinder you can sharpen it easily.

This is probably not what you want to hear, but you will be well ahead of the game if you are able to beg, borrow, or steal some type of demo hammer or air chisel. (Okay, don't really steal one, we don't condone that )

If you have a compressor, you can hook up a pneumatic chisel that works pretty well, or you can rent/borrow a demo hammer and probably be done with the whole job in less than one day.

The manual chisel will work, but it will take you much longer and you'll be completely worn out when it's finally finished.

I'm also thinking maybe a good scraper with a razor blade might take that mastic off if the chisel skips over it. Kind of a trial and error sort of thing.

I actually need an air compressor. I spend a small fortune on compressed air to clean dust from my computer and a compressor would do wonders towards saving some $$$ on that. Maybe I can figure something out.... I wonder how much the power chisel would be over the compressor? How robust a compressor would you think I'd need? I seem to recall Home Depot having some sub-$100 compressors. Would that do? Otherwise, there's no money for the tools. This is my mother's home and she's footing the bill for the tile. She can't afford my renting anything. My money is limited as well.

As for the manual work: I've done my entire downstairs of about 450 sqft manually so I'm not scared of that... In my experience the problem with scrapers arise when the blade or chisel blunts the stuff on the floor and there's nothing for the blade or chisel to bite into so it skips. It's annoying and usually I end up changing the angle of my tool and it works. It's just time consuming.

Anyway, thanks for the help everyone. I think I'll invest in that sharp chisel and maybe a good grout removal tool to maybe make them come loose a little easier. I've been leaving the grout in place but I think that's the wrong approach this time. Dremel makes an oscillating type that might work. Or I could just use a diamond blade in my 4.5" grinder, but that'll make an awful mess... I've done that before but I also have a better shop vac now so perhaps.

[GHR]

Hey, what about a hammer drill with a chisel attachement? I have a ryobi hammer drill. Does anyone make a chisel attachement for it?

[edit]
Nope. Not for mine. It doesn't have rotory stop only drill or hammer/drill. Rats!
[end edit]

[brusu]

I busted my but with a scraper and then chisel and hammer pulling tile off a concrete floor here in Ohio, then figured out an easier way that I hope works for you. Try using a sledge(with eye protection of course) hit the tile where the last piece came up and keep working forward agling the face of the sledge slightly towards you. this worked loke a charm and these tiles were welded to the floor. If yours is on concrete , this should work. Cheap on tools, expensive on the back. Know any 16 year kid, maybe a wrestler?

[Kman]

This one is about as cheap as you're going to find. The down side is that the chisel in that package is very, very narrow. I bought one some time ago that about 2" wide, but I had to get it from a tool store and I think it was also $20. Of course, a small air chisel still beats a manual one any day.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...-55451-LGA-620

There's really no minimum size compressor for that tool, but the small the compressor and tank, the more you'll have to stop working to let it catch up. I have a 5HP 20Gal compressor and I have to stop every five minutes or so and wait a minute or two to let it catch up.

Maybe you could borrow a decent-sized compressor and save yourself the cost of one, plus a hose?

[mossypath]

Henry , Don't bother with getting a sub-$100 compressors . It wont do what you want . Just put on some good music and work at it hard in tell you are finished .Some things are just plain hard to do and if you start with all the tools you have and and the thought that you will get it done you will .

Next time you may want to think about painting the joints with grout paint . Is it to late to replace the few tiles you have up and do that now ?

[GHR]

Originally Posted by brusu solution

I busted my but with a scraper and then chisel and hammer pulling tile off a concrete floor here in Ohio, then figured out an easier way that I hope works for you. Try using a sledge(with eye protection of course) hit the tile where the last piece came up and keep working forward agling the face of the sledge slightly towards you. this worked loke a charm and these tiles were welded to the floor. If yours is on concrete , this should work. Cheap on tools, expensive on the back. Know any 16 year kid, maybe a wrestler?

Yeah, I did the same with the tiles I've already pulled in two and now going on three rooms. I'll just have to live with it. Thanks for the idea though. I'll likely end up using it.

Originally Posted by Kman

This one is about as cheap as you're going to find. The down side is that the chisel in that package is very, very narrow. I bought one some time ago that about 2" wide, but I had to get it from a tool store and I think it was also $20. Of course, a small air chisel still beats a manual one any day.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...-55451-LGA-620

There's really no minimum size compressor for that tool, but the small the compressor and tank, the more you'll have to stop working to let it catch up. I have a 5HP 20Gal compressor and I have to stop every five minutes or so and wait a minute or two to let it catch up.

Maybe you could borrow a decent-sized compressor and save yourself the cost of one, plus a hose?

I wish I knew someone anyone with a compressor and the tools, but alas I don't. Even one of my neighbors who has tools doesn't. I think I'll be doing it the hard way. It's only 35 sqft of area not 450 like I did by hand in the rest of the downstairs.

Originally Posted by mossypath

Henry , Don't bother with getting a sub-$100 compressors . It wont do what you want . Just put on some good music and work at it hard in tell you are finished .Some things are just plain hard to do and if you start with all the tools you have and and the thought that you will get it done you will .

Next time you may want to think about painting the joints with grout paint . Is it to late to replace the few tiles you have up and do that now ?

Yeah, I've already decided against them. I'll try the sharp chisel and build some muscle tone swinging the sledge into it. As for painting the grout I've tried and hated the look in the past. I tried that before removing the other tiles I pulled. It looked artificial and I had more on the tile than the grout making the effect even less convincing.

All I really wanted to do is regrout, but the grout isn't cooperating. I can't get it out!

Besides this grout is set in with overflow from a nasty toilet! The grout is brown and absorbed the material. I won't be more detailed than that , but suffice it to say the grout at least must come out. I've tried two grout removal tools and I'm doing more damage to the tiles than the grout. I'll have to pulled the chipped tiles and given the toughness of the setting material (premixed thinset on the floor that's the subject of this thread) I'll probably never get a clean surface to put down one or two tiles in the middle of the room. Solution: I need to do it completely over. Unless someone has a better way?