Talk me down (or into) a $24k shower rebuild

[ybakos]

All right, at first I saw no signs of leaking water, but after about 13 hours (around midnight) I checked the suspicious areas for moisture and, sure enough, there is moisture.

I placed a sheet of about five squares of toilet paper partially under the crack between the floor and baseboard, about half an inch. When I checked just after midnight the tp had become mildly saturated.

But then, I dried the area and put down another sheet. Interestingly, when I checked the sheet again in the morning, it was dry. (!)

Also, another area that had been showing moisture was very dry.

The attached photos indicate where I found water/moisture and not.

The other thing is, the level of the water in the basin/receptor did not go down much at all. Maybe 1mm.

For all the signs of damage, I was surprised that the 24-hour test did not get more dramatic!

Please educate me: how is it possible that a single 24-hour test of a full shower receptor did not exhibit as much leaking as a mere 1- or 2- shower-per-day?

I have now capped the shower sprayer head and turned on the tap 1/2 cold 1/2 hot. I'll put it on full cold and full hot from time to time, too, over the next 24 hours.

[Davy]

It's fun to be a detective and try to figure out where and why it's leaking but we usually don't spend much time doing that. The tiles on top of the curb are also cracked along with cracked grout. That's all we need to see and we quickly get to tearing it out. Once you start removing the tiles, you'll likely get more answers.

[ybakos]

Thanks Davy, time to tear stuff out.

[Just In Tile LLC]

Joe that is a conundrum for sure, if it's more water leaking on multiple showers then a single flood test it would suggest it's plumbing related or when showering you get water into a critical spot that maybe isn't waterproofed above the pan.

I've seen pinhole leaks above the mixing valve to small tears in waterproofing funneling water. But at this point having performed the two tests and getting mixed results, I'll echo Davy, time to dig deeper.

[ybakos]

After a 24-hour plug-the-shower-head-with-the-valve-open leak test, no new moisture.

Thank you, everyone for the guidance.

I'm going to start by ripping out the trim and tile around the curb. My demoing will have to move super slowly since I am a novice and have limited time.

Today I pulled out the door and a handle. Here is how the door frame was mounted and the handle. Door has screw plugs, but no sealant on/around them. Handle had nothing.

[ybakos]

I started to rip out the curb, outer bottom, end near the wood trim.

Here is what I have found so far...

I wonder if there is termite damage there? What do you think? I will rip out more over the next week. (The previous owner did have a termite issue in the bathroom that got treated just over two years ago.)

I see Durock with no additional sealing with membrane or redguard, abutting drywall, and the red plastic stuff that didn't quite make it beyond the curb edge.

[cx]

Not surprised, Joe. I think Davy pointed out early on that the curb is the first place we look for premature shower failures.

And it's a shame, because it's so easy to do that part of the waterproofing correctly when the shower is being built. And even easier, of course, to do it wrong.

[Kman]

Looks like maybe the installer did some things correctly, but maybe forgot the preformed corners that keep water out of the curb.

[Davy]

Yep, what the others said. There's no doubt that moisture will find it's way to the pan liner. Adding pitch to the top 2x4 helps to keep the moisture running towards the shower and not to the outside. Some of us here on the forum pitch ours but in all the showers I've torn out have never seen it done.

[ybakos]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the guidance, suggestions and ideas shared here. I have engaged a few good contractors and a tile company to do the work - it may include re-framing the inner wall, or who knows once real demolition begins.

I will post back periodically with interesting updates. Maybe they'll help someone in the future.

[Davy]

Did you find any termites in the curb, Joe? It sure looks like they have been there.

[ybakos]

@Davy No active termites. But then, I haven't demo'd further into the shower yet.

The previous homeowner did have a termite treatment in the bathroom in the past - but no signs ever since. We will see!

I have put the demo on hold as the contractor suggests they'd like to do the demo to get as much info about any water damage, termites, etc, as possible. (Indeed, perhaps some termite damage led to the failure... but I think there are many clear signs of poor implementation that led to this failure, from the membrane to the tiling, etc.

I'll report back and share photos as I progress.

[cx]

Originally Posted by Joe

...there are many clear signs of poor implementation that led to this failure, from the membrane to the tiling, etc.

Bad tiling, no matter how bad, does not cause showers to leak, Joe. The tile in a properly constructed shower is nothing more than a decorative wear layer.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[ybakos]

Thanks to folks on the forum I was able to verify the need for a shower rebuild. Now, I have a $24k estimate by a solid contractor & PM to demo and rebuild it (kerdi, plumbing, large format tile, etc) two months from now, with a time span of about 8 weeks from start to finish.

It's more than I'd prefer to pay, but it is the reality in my location these days.

Had I known it would have taken this long, I would have chipped away at it on my own (I first identified the need to demo and rebuild in September). But, my concern is that, should there be significant water or termite damage, I may need a contractor anyway; and, I think redoing the receptor properly is beyond my ability... and I am on a concrete floor on top of a concrete slab foundation.

What are the benefits and drawbacks of swallowing the pill and going w/ a reputable contractor, vs. DIYing this? I am staring at the contract and my eyes are bulging at the price, lol.

Thanks for any insights.

[makethatkerdistick]

I would balk at that sort of cost, especially if you yourself could complete the work for a third (including tool purchases). It all depends if you want to sink the time and effort into a project like this. Definitely doable, but very, very detail oriented. Also, keep in mind that just by paying the money you won’t automatically get a great installation. Perhaps that contractor is stellar and you are in luck, or perhaps not. Regardless, if you hire this one out, you really, really want to keep a keen and informed eye on things. People post here regularly about how their contractor took their money and left them with an inferior installation.

If you are able-bodied and (assuming you are of an able mind) do not mind the learning along the way, folks here would probably accompany your journey with helpful advice free of charge. Once you complete your first shower project, you will then be able and open for tackling other things in your home. Always good to be knowledgeable about repairs and remodels of all kinds. It makes life easier, really. And it can be fun, too, to see your project grow under your own hands.