Condo 32x32 Shower Replacement

[ss3964spd]

Wendy, I don't believe slathering Redgard onto raw wood is condoned by its manufacturer, Custom Building Products. Further, if the shower is correctly waterproofed that second layer of defense just isn't needed.

There are other water proofing methods than drywall covered with Kerdi, but that' definitely a good one. You might consider some of the water proof foam board products; Kerdi Board, Hydroban boards, etc. All are light weight, easy to cut, easy to install.

I rather like the idea of using those long tiles horizontally oriented. Makes the space look wider than it would otherwise.

[wwinters]

Interesting. I'll give CBP a call next week and get their veto/approval on Redguarding everything. A redundant $60 for putting down Redguard is nothing compared to the over $100,000 in damage -before this latest bathroom leak- my unit alone has endured. I assume the unit below me was probably another $100,000 in damage.

I have no control over my upstairs neighbor's choice of contractors, maintenance, or the HOA's choice of plumbers and doing questionable fixes. We've had 8+ water intrusion events covering almost every room of our condo in the past 2.5 years. If possible, I'd seal this entire place from floor to ceiling. I'm not just trying to ensure I don't damage my neighbor and longevity, I'm trying to protect my place from water events beyond my control.

[cx]

Wendy, I gotta agree with Dan about the RedGard. Custom does not condone its use on dimension lumber. And even if they did, having it applied to two or three sides of your lumber will not keep it from getting wet if your neighbor has another "flood event." What it would do, however, is slow the drying process dramatically. I really don't recommend you try that, even though we know you're gonna.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[wwinters]

Thank you both for the insight. I can see my use of Redguard is not what the manufacturer intended and could lead to undesirable consequences if/when the area floods again. It's now 6 or 8 weeks out using industrial fans and a few of the studs are still not dry. I don't need to make things harder if this happens again.

Here is a diagram of our shower floor. I'm still deciding between a mud floor and Kerid floor (I'm reading the Kerdi book now). The shower drain is not quite centered because the area isn't quite square but I'm not sure a 2" difference in such a small space is really going to affect the slope much. I'm not concerned with the floor being level. I'd just throw down some leveling compound which is a lot easier than putting wood blocking around all those pipes on the one wall that would be needed for mud.

Upstairs neighbor I believe is negotiating with HOA to not replace his rotted subfloor, instead wanting to put a new piece of plywood down over the old. I'm not starting any work till I know they're done with tear out but my plumber is coming to look at the job this week. We've always done our own plumbing work so I'm not even sure what parts of the job are his.

[wwinters]

I'm hoping someone can help me understand the drain attachment. The plumber came by to look at the job. He's never heard of Kerdi or other Schluter products except for my neighbor's ditra floor (he's only worked with hot moped showers before that). He said he'd have to cut out part of the subfloor to attach the Drain Rough then put the subfloor piece back on. I showed him the Kerdi drain but his response was:

"There’s no way that drain is going to work with the existing p-trap drain being cast iron. Unless I open up floor which defeats the purpose of a no access plumbing."

So what am I not understanding? Is there some other option that doesn't involve taking out the subfloor and installing a transition coupling? On a separate note, any opinions on Flofx flange kits (original or traditional)?

[ss3964spd]

Although we don't have any photos of your current shower floor drain, if it is cast iron your plumber isn't wrong, Wendy; some sort of coupler to transition from the CI trap to the PVC/ABS drain assembly will be needed, regardless of if the new drain assembly is Schluter's or FloFX's. The subfloor will have to be opened up.

[jadnashua]

Depending on your local codes, and for the type of building, you may be required to have all metal drains. Schluter does make a metal drain for their Kerdi showers. Before you go plastic conversion, make sure it will pass a code inspection so you get the right type.

[wwinters]

jadnashua, Thank you! I understand now why you directed me to the stainless steel Kerdi earlier. I will check with code. I know from my friend's place that the plumber isn't the strongest on multi-unit dwelling code.

ss3964spd, Both options (Kerdi and the drain he usually uses) would require a transition to ABS/PVC. I wasn't sure why he pointed out this step as a negative of the Kerdi when he said he was going to have to also do it for the drain he planned to use. Maybe after leaving my place he changed his mind about what drain he planned to use?

My husband has just pointed out that my assumption that our drain is exactly the same as the upstairs neighbor's appears to be false. he says ours looks to be the original drain where upstairs was not. Definitely need to take more pictures and maybe let him use that amazing wrench he bought for our last shower job to see if he can unscrew it.

[wwinters]

Thought I'd add an update. First the good news, the city says we don't need the stainless steel drain to meet code. I've had a few plumbers bid the job that don't have a problem with us doing the shower instead of a contractor -have had a few not so OK with it. All have never seen Kerdi or similar products and insist hot-mop is the only safe method.

The not-so-good, HOA plumber installed upstairs drain last week and this is the final result. The pipe has 4 connectors with no supports except that piece of plywood on end pushing it up - from what I overheard maybe because the new fiberglass shower didn't line up quite right. The plumber and HOA say the plywood is just there for backup and is better than metal supports. From my reading, this doesn't follow code so I've got to find someone to look at it and maybe continue my battle with the HOA before I can close everything up and start my shower.

[wwinters]

I have been calling contractors for months and have only found one that will do membrane instead of hot-mop but he wants to use the kerdi foam pan. I've posted on Nextdoor, Facebook etc. I spoke to Shluter for contractor recommendations and they suggested I call some of their distributors. So far the distributors say they sell Shluter but only do hot-mop and have no sugestions.

Does anyone have recommendations for contractors or avenues to find contractors that don't use hot-mop in So Cal?

[cx]

Wendy, there are a lot of hot-mop showers in your part of the world that have been in service for decades and a whole lot more being installed every day. I've never installed one, never even seen one installed, but they do have a long history for use with the traditional method of shower receptor construction.

The newer direct bonded waterproofing membrane method of receptor construction is different, but not necessarily better. There are pluses and minuses to each method, but the traditional methods have the longer history. There will be good installations and poor installations with each method.

Not suggesting you discontinue your search for a Schluter installer, but I'm suggesting it might be a lot easier to find a competent contractor and use his method. As with every shower construction, it's the attention to detail that will make the difference between a long-term shower and one destined t o premature failure.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[jadnashua]

A big advantage to some with a Kerdi shower is the 0% VOCs.

[HooKooDoo Ku]

Originally Posted by wwinters

have only found one that will do membrane instead of hot-mop but he wants to use the kerdi foam pan.

Is there anything wrong with using the kerdi foam pan?

I'm working on a DIY rebuild of a 30x30 shower myself. Because I lucked into a good discount on a kerdi pan, I opted to use drywall/membrane/kerdi pan over learning to do a pre-slope mortar bed.

[jadnashua]

The foam pan works fine, but the three things that might bite you are:
- the placement of the drain must be exact
- the floor must be level
- if you have to cut the tray to fit, your bottom row won't be the same length on each side unless you cut it symmetrically all around. That isn't a technical problem, but might be an aesthetic one

Doing a mud pan, then Kerdi over it, is much more accommodating as those two things are easy to compensate for.

There is a company that will mill you a custom foam pan to put the drain anywhere if you can wait for that.

[wwinters]

CX, your point is definitely valid and one my husband has noted as well. jadnashua covered most of my reasons. the 0 VOC is a big part. The bathroom has no windows and minimal ventilation on the middle floor of the building. I'm mindful I just spent a heck-of-a-lot of money installing no VOC wood floors shipped from Sweeden for the rest of the house.

If these contractors said to me "I've worked with both and feel the hot mop is better" I could respect that. Instead, membrane is something they haven't tried yet are confident is inferior. I also wonder; if hot-mop is such a great unfailable option as most insist, why doesn't the rest of the country use it?