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Unread 06-02-2016, 06:53 PM   #1
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This a first

A few days ago,I was approached by GC,and he states "man was I lucky" And I ask him,what are you talking about?

He states that he just recently closed on house I was just on,and it just so happens,after close.....he had a carpenter install grab bars in two bathrooms.

Long story short....carpenter hit an elec wire with one of the screws holding grab bar,and sadly.....the homeowner took a shower,and became part of the circuit Luckily it didn't kill him,but was told he did receive more than a tingle.

At end of day today,removed two tiles,and sure enough,could see where the screw had caught the wire.

Wondering if in FL etc,code would require any wire in a wet area,to have solid conduit etc?

Just thought I would post this as,I've never seen or exp this in all my years in trade.

Also, I saw thin black tubing in wall,which I was told is something to do with pesticides. Never seen nor heard of that either.....and like 4-6 of those tubes,also coming out to outside wall...looks like it still needs to be fitted/finished.
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Unread 06-02-2016, 07:16 PM   #2
dhagin
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With that foam between the studs, the wires are too close to the wall edge. Wires should have been protected or moved back. GC is very lucky... so far.
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Unread 06-02-2016, 10:21 PM   #3
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Most juristdictions do not allow a wire to be patched where it is inaccessible. A covered junction box with accessible lid is required round these parts.

The tubes we've seen are for termite prevention juice. They look very similar.
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Unread 06-02-2016, 11:21 PM   #4
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Wires running across a stud bay should be in the middle of the bay, but in a shallow space like that it would have been safer in a metal conduit.

The homeowner is pretty lucky not to have gotten a good shock from that, particularly standing in water while barefoot.
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Unread 06-03-2016, 11:55 AM   #5
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Good point Paul, I believe that's a NEC thing. Looks like Rich might be removing more tile... or not.

I'm guessing no permits on that one.
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Unread 06-03-2016, 12:48 PM   #6
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My understanding of the NEC requirements (300.4(D)) is that if the NM cable was installed while the wall was open, the location is compliant without further protection as long as it remains 1.25" away from the edge of the stud. Arguably it should be clipped to the foam insulation to maintain the 1.25" spacing.

If the NM cable was installed after the wall finish was up, then it can be fished in the void without maintaining the 1.25" spacing, per Exception 2 to 300.4(D).

So I don't think we can conclude that there was an NEC violation that led to this incident. If the idea was that anchors in the tile/tile substrate would be sufficient to hold the grab bar, then shorter screws should have been used.

BTW, do stud finders work through tile?

Cheers, Wayne
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Unread 06-03-2016, 01:13 PM   #7
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Are those little anchors really adequate or approved for grab bars? Doesn't seem like something I would want to grab when falling. The carpenter would need to be pretty clueless to not notice he had not hit solid blocking.

With the wire penetration so close to the edge of the cable, I think the wire may have been restrained. Can't tell for sure from the photos but it almost appears the wire may have been lightly compressed between the foam/tubes and the wallboard. So even if the NEC allows an unrestrained wire to be closer than 1 1/2 inches from the stud face, this would no longer be unrestrained.
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Unread 06-03-2016, 02:25 PM   #8
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Plenty of permits etc...new construction,and I'm sure several inspections done during various phases. I in fact had to wait for final inspection,prior to putting in tile at tub access,for plumbers and inspection.

That being said,this is FL,and who knows what inspectors are looking for,and miss seeing??

Years ago in CAL,all pans were filled,water tested/inspected etc,prior to proceeding. Oakland for example,wanted 1/2" self furring galvanized wire used when muddling walls,AND,all wire had to be screwed to studs at 6" intervals or less,with minimum 2" overlap of wire etc. That too had to be inspected,prior to mudding walls.

When I saw upstairs bath at current house I'm on,scratched my head in disbelief.....wondering how it ever passed flood inspection(assuming there was one?).

Lastly,not sure why the wire is there in shower area,no clue what it's feeding etc,and didn't ask. There is evidence of power on outside of house in same relationship to inside,and that's feeding a water softener unit/s etc.

I've discussed this n that with various builders over the years,and pretty much to no avail,as far as this is the right way,this is why etc etc. Think it has to come to some dreaded ordeal,in all areas of FL,before things get switched to IMO,proper codes/procedures.

As Dave Gobis mentioned in a different post,he has stated stuff to peeps,with little/no impact. I believe it's about the dollar,and being competitive,no matter what lurks behind the curtain/structure.
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Unread 06-03-2016, 07:01 PM   #9
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Good thing this is in Florida where moisture is never a problem and waterproofing isn't necessary. Otherwise, patching that hole that aligns with the tile would be tricky.
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Unread 06-03-2016, 08:30 PM   #10
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I'm in the habit of taking a pic or two of the wall right after adding the blocking for grab bars. Makes it easy to find them later.
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Unread 06-04-2016, 05:01 AM   #11
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A;ways a good idea. They came so close to the existing blocking though, Height was good, just six inches or so to the right and they would have nailed it!
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Unread 06-04-2016, 11:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
I'm in the habit of taking a pic or two of the wall right after adding the blocking for grab bars. Makes it easy to find them later.
Yep, I do the same thing. I even hold a tape measure in there for reference.
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Unread 06-04-2016, 11:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry
Are those little anchors really adequate or approved for grab bars? Doesn't seem like something I would want to grab when falling.
Definitely not. You need something like this for ADA compliance.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/WingIts-S...-RES/203519197

http://www.wingits.com/products.php?id=2
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Unread 06-04-2016, 02:24 PM   #14
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When I do remodel work,I too take various pics of progress,so I know where to screw,and not to screw in reference to pipes etc. (I guess now I'll add elec wire to that equation too lol) House I'm currently on,was missing screws in upstairs bath,and was a pipe wall. Told GC I'm not messing with it.....he proceeded to screw screws where required etc(his house,his leaker etc)

It was plastic pinch pin anchors,in the tile that he went all the way through,to the wire. I agree too,screws wayyyy to long/not needed...esp as that was a block wall,and they used/use 1" furring strips,attached with tap cons. I saw no evidence of silicone used anywhere,at screw holes nor screw heads.

Will be lots of fun to patch the denshield I'm sure. I'm gonna vacumm all the dust I can from tore out drywall,and use silicone prior to insertion of board,and after board installed. Still no word when electrician will be there to repair/pull new wire etc.
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Unread 06-05-2016, 11:11 AM   #15
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I sometimes worry about the length of the better bench screws. Just am careful of their placement.
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